Speaker 1: 0:36

Welcome back to Speak Out Standout. I'm Elizabeth Green, and today's guest is Laura Lyles-Ragin. Laura is a sociologist, a youth development researcher, parent and teen communications coach and an award-winning author of how to Raise Respectful Parents. A unique twist on the name Got my attention right there for sure. She's also the founder and CEO of Heart to Heart Parents, which is a parent and teen coaching resource service, but she believes her real accomplishment is mothering and launching two awesome, powerful young women who are making their way in the world, and, of course, that is an amazing accomplishment. So, laura, we are so glad to have you here today. Laura is going to be sharing with us about how to inoculate our teens against the teen mental health crisis from a sociological perspective. So a lot to dive in today. Laura, thank you so much for being here.

Speaker 2: 1:23

Thanks so much, elizabeth, for having me and for having this platform for us. It's just wonderful that we can create a sense of community, even online, right.

Speaker 1: 1:32

Right, absolutely, and the goal, of course, is always to help parents at home and caregivers build communication skills in their kids, and oftentimes that starts with our own communication skills, and it is sometimes difficult to have conversations about some of these things. So let's just dive right in. I mean, and let me just say too, even if you are not a parent of teens yet, this is still a really important conversation for you to hear now, because things are not getting better any time soon. Right there, it is very likely that this will be something that you will be faced with at some point. So, even if your kiddos are still little, it's going to be worthwhile. So, laura, let's start the teen mental health crisis. We hear that phrase a lot, is it? Are we hearing it a lot because it is getting worse, or are we just becoming more aware of it? What are your thoughts on that?

Speaker 2: 2:20

No, I do believe that the research is right on that. It is getting worse and that kids are identifying themselves as having crisis issues and parents are identifying themselves as having crisis issues. And I want to first, you know, do this disclaimer caveat I am not a therapist, I'm not a psychologist. I have worked in mental health right as a case manager before and as a substance abuse counselor, so I do have that perspective, but I'm coming at it from the sociological side, which means the social side. The psychology focuses on the individual. Sociology focuses on the group dynamics and what that social phenomena is doing to influence kids. And we know that in times of great social change and hello, that's where we are today- right, absolutely.

Speaker 2: 3:07

With major institutional change and distrust in institutions. We know, in times of great social change, that we see these struggles because kids don't have a quote, unquote society to attach to. Right now they're having to create their own. And you'll hear a lot of parents and psychologists bemoan social media, and rightfully so. But there is a need for kids to create community. They need that, you know, and they're not getting the same messaging from parents as they did, you know, back 30, 40 years, as they did from church, from home, from school, from neighbors. Everybody was speaking the same messaging because there was social cohesion, and right now there's not social cohesion.

Speaker 2: 3:54

We're in a time of change and flux, and so I'm not saying that there's not a reason to seek mental health professionals there is. I'm simply saying that there's also another part of it, and that's the social, societal side. And what can we, as parents, do to take action to create this sense of support underneath our teens and even our kids, because the mental health crisis is really even affecting eight, nine year olds. Can you believe it that we're seeing kids, you know, have suicidal thoughts and gestures and even take their own lives? So it's a really scary time and rather than, you know, put it all the blame on social media. Put all the blame on, you know, working parents. You know, let's look at the societal changes that are going on and the lack of supports that we have.

Speaker 2: 4:47

Even as parents used to in tribal times we could rely on the neighbors helping correct your kids or helping nurture your kids. When there are skin knees, you know there was a sense of community around kids that they may not have right now.

Speaker 1: 5:06

It's like, as our world has gotten bigger individually because we have access now to people from all over the world that we didn't before, it's also like it's done the opposite and our world has gotten smaller for that reason that you know we might have friends from around the world, but we don't know our neighbors names or things like that, you know, and so I'm sure that that affects our children as well in a way that didn't affect us.

Speaker 1: 5:27

So exactly, yeah, exactly. Well. So how do we support our kids? How do we, how do we prevent them from ever even getting to issues where they're really suffering from mental health, to start, Right.

Speaker 2: 5:39

First of all, there's, you know, mental illness does exist in families and probably one in four of us has an alcoholic or a mentally ill person in our extended family. So I want to normalize that and normalize asking for help when that is the issue. However, we're seeing kids, you know, talk about suicidal ideation and problems and anxiety and depression, even when they don't have that mental health background. So that's why we as sociologists are and parent coaches are hollering a little bit because there's a larger picture going on and I really appreciate the question of what is it that we as parents can do, because we're not powerless and we don't have to ride the wave of social trends before we help our teens find what they need and I speak teens because that's that's my area of expertise, but, like we just shared, you know, it can be tweens and younger children as well. So one of the big, big things I want to encourage us as parents to do is have this conversation early. What if you felt like you couldn't talk to me or you were afraid of getting in trouble? Who would you go to for help? Who would that be? And you know, usually the kid will name their best friend. Okay, but your best friend is your age and they might not know how to ask for help in different ways. Who else would you go to?

Speaker 2: 7:05

And when you sanction those relationships as mentors in your teens life? You know it might be a coach, it might be a trusted teacher, but I would caution about being careful with the teacher, because teachers change regularly and even though they're wonderful you know they can really make an impact in kids' lives they're not always the consistent, reliable source of ongoing support for the longevity of an adolescent right. So you want to sanction somebody that's a mentor in their lives and that could be an extended family member. It could be a kinship relationship.

Speaker 2: 7:47

My girls had an adopted family member that we had in our lives and she was amazing. She was 10 years older than my oldest daughter and she really played that role to do the boyfriend talks. Well, maybe you could save up money for that. Here's what I think your mom might say about that. I trusted her. We had the same similar value system. So sanctioning and when I say sanctioning I mean talking about who that person might be and then asking that open into question often who would you go to if I wasn't available or I was out on a business trip and you needed some immediate help. Who would that person be?

Speaker 1: 8:32

Or if they just weren't comfortable coming to us in some situations, like you said earlier, maybe fear that they're going to get in trouble or things like that. So I can definitely see the benefit of having this person in their lives. So let's say they've identified the person that they feel like they trust and you feel like, yes, this would be a great person. Do you talk to that person? Do you reach out and say hey, just so you know. My child is going to lean on you.

Speaker 2: 8:55

I said you are the go-to when it's not me and are you comfortable with that? And I want you to be able to respect confidentiality. Unless you felt there was a self-harm issue or a medical issue, experimentation with alcohol or drugs, then I would want you to break that confidence so that we could get help, not so somebody would be in trouble, but just so that we could get help.

Speaker 1: 9:24

Right, and so it's okay for them to have somebody that they're talking to that's not sharing these things with us. It is the I think it's important.

Speaker 2: 9:32

You know, I really do think it's essential, because how else do you learn boundaries unless you're experimenting with that early?

Speaker 1: 9:41

Right, and that's so hard, I think, as parents. I mean, one of the biggest challenges I think I face as a mother is learning not learning, but forcing myself to let my kids learn their own lessons. Or if something's wrong, I want to know, I want to try to fix it. And that's really hard as a parent. But it is comforting then to think that If I can tell something's wrong with them, that they're not just stewing on it on their own, that if they're not comfortable coming to me, that they have somebody, I think that's a fantastic idea. This might be a more difficult question and I'm sure this is going to be very individualistic. But what if you don't feel like you have anybody in your world? If you're Right Maybe you're a family that has moved around a lot you don't have anybody, you're not close with your extended family. What do you do then?

Speaker 2: 10:26

Right, or you're even distrustful of your extended family. You know, many of us grew up in less than ideal homes with authoritarian models, so it's not a relational kind of parenting and so we wouldn't necessarily want our kids to invest in those relationships and some of us are recovering.

Speaker 2: 10:45

I know that's part of my story. We had family alcoholism as part of our lives and we had to seek assistance for that and recovery, and I myself am 21 years sober. So oh, wow, you know there's some folks that it's okay you don't talk to them. I don't control that, anna, or I'll go, you know I get it, but identifying who that would be? Because we all need those support networks and if we don't have that, I didn't spend a period of my parenting, particularly during my girls adolescence, as a single parent. And sometimes you're just so busy making a living and you know figuring out the next steps that you just don't have those supports in place.

Speaker 2: 11:32

And I would encourage you to look for that, you know, and talk to your teens about that. How would you discern and these are where your open-ended questions come up. You know, how would you know somebody was trustworthy? And what a wonderful conversation to have with your toys and teens, right, it's what a protective conversation is. Who do you trust in your inner circle to talk to? And it might be a teacher, you know. It might be a counselor at school, and you know it might be somebody at church. It might be a neighbor, a coach, so there are probably people that are willing to connect with your kids. We just haven't thought through that or had the time and energy to invest in that. Rather than guilt yourself about oh my God, here's another thing I need to do, you know, to protect my kid is make that a co-created conversation and solution, because it can really be ripe with teaching and help, and make it a safe thing to discuss. You know, who do I, who do we trust in our inner world?

Speaker 1: 12:34

Yeah, I think this is. I mean, this is eye-opening for me, because a lot of what we talk about is building strong communication skills with our kids now, so that they do always feel comfortable to open up to us. But you're right, we just might not be around sometime when they need to talk to somebody, so I never personally thought about this.

Speaker 2: 12:53

Part of this social change again right is that we lay so much on the mother and father and we don't have extended families around us and we don't have a community of support around us. And school is fast-paced and always changes. I know the Montessori model is you stick with a kid for three years, right? There's an early elementary and then there's an upper elementary and then there's a junior high, so there's more time to invest in these kinds of relationships. Truthfully, I would love everybody in the world to be able to have that opportunity, you know, educationally, but we need to think about how we're constructing our relationships. We do have a conscious decision-making ability here that we're probably not exercising, and it's something our kids desperately need. I believe they're crying for it.

Speaker 1: 13:41

Yeah, well, another thing you mentioned when you talk about it. So that's I mean that's step one right Finding a support network for ourselves and for our children. So you also talk about developing rights of passage. How, what does this mean in the world of teen mental health?

Speaker 2: 13:56

You know when. Again, I don't want to idealize tribal times, but I want to use it as an example. Right Is we provided these rights of passages for tweens and teens early on. It's been part of humanity and the developmental growth process forever, and we're at a stage in societal change where we're just not doing that. And no wonder kids are looking to the internet. For who am I? You know, as they answer these questions of identity. Because we're not providing it. You could go make your first kill in tribal times and you were a man, you know you could get your period and you were a woman.

Speaker 2: 14:35

You could care for other children in the tribe and you had a special role because you were seen as an older than and could take on more responsibility. So we need to identify what those things are in our teens lives and what they look like and what we can co-create with them that will help them feel like they're making developmental progress. Think about it Our frontal cortex does not develop. The prefrontal cortex doesn't develop until we're fully 25 or 28.

Speaker 1: 15:05

So that makes my lessons crazy long.

Speaker 2: 15:08

You know and what you're not fully adult and you don't have responsibilities and you haven't achieved anything until you graduate college and get your first job in an apartment. Really you know that's the milestone we're going to set. So we need to think about what are some stair step things we can do, that we can celebrate that we can say yeah, you did this, and that kids know where the end point is. I'm all for the kindergarten graduation and making that a big deal because it's the beginning of these rights of passages, right, and kids that struggle in school may not feel good about graduation at all, even if they do it, because it was school didn't work for them really well.

Speaker 2: 15:50

So what is their right of passage? What is their sense of achievement? My youngest daughter is an equine professional now. She went to Echoing College and one of the big achievements in her life was to own her own business, to teach writing lessons and to get paychecks from adults, you know, for these writing lessons and wow, you know what an entrepreneur you are and I'm so proud of you and we were able. She really has confidence now as she enters, you know, a regular college and the workplace, because she had a small business when she was 16, you know.

Speaker 1: 16:27

She did this as a teenager, not as an adult.

Speaker 2: 16:29

Wow, okay that's great.

Speaker 2: 16:31

Yeah, and you know it was small and she used, but she paid for her horse's care and hay through that, you know, and allowing our kids the responsibility to make the choices for them that fit their achievement and their trajectory is really, really important. I know that when my daughters went to the movies and passed that magical age of being 12 and 13 and got to pay the adult price, you know that was a big deal for them. We have to pay more. What is your problem? But I got it as a sociologist. I got it because it was again another right of passage. I have achieved something, you know, because we can't wait till we're 28 to celebrate the development. So it'll look different for your different team, but you want to shine a big old line and throw a mini parade because they developed in a certain way for them that works for them. Does that make sense?

Speaker 1: 17:34

Yes, absolutely. And one thing that you just talked about, with your daughter having a job my 10 year old has a job taking out trash cans for our neighbors.

Speaker 1: 17:43

So he takes them out on trash day and then puts them back up, and it's something that he has really taken a lot of responsibility in and lately I've noticed a lot of pride as well, and he enjoys sharing with people that he has a job and he makes his own money and he can choose what he wants to spend it on. Exactly, I was really just thinking about this as a way for him to earn some money and learn financial. You know responsibility, but never looked at it before.

Speaker 2: 18:11

Yeah, it's a powerful thing for them because it's what we call in sociology anticipatory socialization. Think about it with the med students. You know they put on the white coat and they go with the doctors to do rounds and they take notes and they ask the intake questions of the patients. That's anticipatory socialization, and if we want kids to be responsible adults, we got to do a lot of that along the way. Right and writes a passage is a great way to feel good about what you're achieving, you know, in the normal developmental process. Yeah, and it's got to be more than just matriculating the next grade, you know. So think creatively about who your tweener team is and what those achievement things will look like for them.

Speaker 1: 18:59

Yeah and I'm glad that you said that too about not everybody's going to feel great about graduation or going to the next grade. If they struggle with school and that's not something I'd considered before either, that we do put so much emphasis on that, and it might not be that what's making them super happy, so looking for other ways to make them feel good.

Speaker 2: 19:16

It's within the gig economy. You know, people are earning crazy lots of money that never even majored in something specific that was attached to their job. Now, right, you know there's so much work for creatives. Hello, here we are, oh, and, and it's a wonderful wide open door for teens. But again, they don't know where the markers are. What would that look like, you know, for me to Be a part of? Yeah, so yeah, celebrating who they are, where they are and what Achieving looks like to them, I think is a really helpful process. Yeah, and I want to say this again, please understand, I am not Discrediting psychology in any way, shape or form but so often we think about self esteem is infusing kids with Worth and value.

Speaker 2: 20:11

But as a sociologist, we see the opposite side of that point, which is self esteem is what we do. You know we get a steam when we do something esteemable, and so you know that these achievement, rights of passage are really part of it. Kids just don't know where they fit in society and we put a lot of pressure on individualism and creating your own meaning and you're worthy, no matter what you do. Okay, I buy that, but where do I fit, and they're in a developmental stage where they need to identify with their peers right away from family In order to Develop a healthy sense of who they are. So helping them feel good about what they're achieving is a big part of that process right, all right, that makes sense.

Speaker 1: 21:02

your, your, your, your third suggestion here, right, and is engaging the pillars of youth development. Tell me more about what is the state from your development research.

Speaker 2: 21:13

We've known, for you know 20, 30 years, what works and somehow, with the team mental health crisis, we forgotten that. You know medical doctors, the pediatricians that are confronting this, seemingly have forgotten these very basic research based ideas, and that is kids need a sense of belonging. Who am I? And even the research talks about kids that have an incarcerated parent or have gang activity in their life. Well, guess what that gang activity was? It was creating family and social cohesion. So if we create the story of who are your go to people who will always be there. You know this adopted parent, this foster parent, who are the people on the way they helped you.

Speaker 2: 21:58

Which teacher stood out that believed in you? And we, we help them create these, this sense of belonging. They do well. You know they don't fall into risky behavior. So belongings number one having power and influence over their lives, and that starts at two years old. Do you want to wear the blue shirt or the red shirt? Having having a sense of autonomy and choice, making a power, influence over your life is really, really a positive piece to that. I'm trying to think about what the other one is, that's contributing to the world, having a place in the world.

Speaker 2: 22:35

I got to serve when I was in youth development in a practical way field work. I got to serve as the boys and girls club director for our town and kids that participated in our service projects, whether that was packing boxes for I need a family's at the food bank or building a habitat for humanity house we had. We would pick up kids on Saturday to go do the service projects and some of them were kids out of the housing projects who would probably never see home ownership in their life until they earned it for themselves. But they would say we're going to go help the poor kids and the sense of contribution that they got out of doing that and they were up at 7am on Saturday morning after going to school all week. You know it was really feeding this ability to contribute. So helping teens find tweens and teens find that place to contribute. Your son, you know in his neighborhood, has that identity as well and that's a really powerful thing for teens.

Speaker 1: 23:39

Yeah, I think that is so important, and it's not always easy to find ways for them to be able to give back to the community, but there are certainly. If you look, if you look hard, there are opportunities and everybody feels better, and when you do something for somebody else.

Speaker 2: 23:54

So bringing that home, vital to that process.

Speaker 1: 23:58

Absolutely, absolutely. And then let's talk communication skills. How do we?

Speaker 2: 24:05

You know, exactly right.

Speaker 1: 24:06

This is so important. How do we?

Speaker 2: 24:08

do this, it really is again going back to the social trends. We're moving away from authoritarian parenting, because we know it doesn't work, to relational parenting, and some are part of this conscious parenting movement. But regardless of what you call it, it is this interpersonal connection that we're feeding, the connection with our kids, first and foremost, and then we can instruct, and then we can teach, and then we can hold kids accountable. But we've captured their hearts first, and and when we, you know, come down with rules, first that tends to shun and reject, because one kids might not understand the why of it. And particularly when you get to tween in teen years, they need to know the rationale, not because that's permission parenting, but because that prepares them for the future. And let me give a real, concrete example here.

Speaker 2: 25:03

Social media is something we all wrestle with Right screen time and the dopamine addiction to it. You know all, all of the process and there's multiple podcasts on all of that. If we come to our teen, I'm so frustrated. I never get to look at your eyes when you talk to me. You're always on the phone. You know that's going to shut down communication If I say I read some recent research about this blue light disturbing our REM sleep at night? What? What do you think about us on and all of us I'm going to include all of the family here, because my job is to help us all be healthy. What do you think about us putting our phones away to charge in a centralized place in the house an hour before bedtime? You know you might get some pushback on that. It might be well, wait a minute. I don't just talk to friends, I ask homework questions. You know we're texting late night because I've got, you know, my magnet school. We've got all kind of homework. Yeah, I hear you. That's a concern. But it begins to be a part of a co-created conversation and a co-created solution. And that give and take in conversation isn't about you relinquishing powers apparent. It's about hearing their voice so that they then stand up for themselves in the workplace with college professors when they're late on a grade and, you know, need some special consideration because somebody died. You know they don't get to have those skills magically when they turn 18 unless they practice them.

Speaker 2: 26:41

So making that a co-created process is really, you know, part of the, I believe, equipping them for the future. And, let's face it, you and I didn't know that we were going to be part of the gig economy when we were in high school. No, we didn't know what this was going to look like, and we can't project and know what their future is going to look like either. So what we do know that happens in times of great social change is that these communication skills can serve them for life and can be a mirror for them to know who they are and represent themselves in the world. Well, it's something you teach, is something I teach, you know, in my coaching and courses, and it's just really empowering to help teens, tweens and teens be able to talk this way. Yeah, I've got a great story I want to share with you about this.

Speaker 2: 27:38

My youngest, the equine professional I was telling you about, she was going up for her first job after she graduated and it was a whole weekend interview process, and so the interview was with an older superintendent believe it or not who retired and bought a horse farm and he was looking for the right barn manager, and so he was touring her of the place and they were having conversations and she said I really love this opportunity, I'm so appreciative of it. She used her eye messages and her affirmations there and you know she's relaying this to me and I'm just so proud because we've been talking like that for a while. Right, and she said but I feel that and she used her, I feel message, I feel concerned because there's some things that are happening in the horse care that I don't agree with, that I wasn't taught about, you know, then would you be willing using this opportunity To examine, you know, implementing these changes over time? And he said yes, and he was very impressed with how she represented herself. She got the job, you know, and he did make some changes, you know, because it was going to be some money investment and he would have to plan that out.

Speaker 2: 28:43

But you know, these skills serve our kids for life. It's such a valuable opportunity and who better to practice it with than us? How long does it create this trust and loving connection? But it really does prepare them for the future and I think that's a great example. And do you mind to back up too, just for anybody who's not familiar with, like you said, the eye message and then following it up with the? You know, would you the open into question?

Speaker 1: 29:09

Can you just explain that strategy and how we use that as parents so that our children will be able to learn to use it as well? Sure, you know, in my coaching practice I've got a stair step process. We start with affirmations and gratitude so that your child feels seen.

Speaker 2: 29:33

Then we move into open ended questions so that the connection is really fortified. Then we do the active listening, what we're mirroring back Did I hear you right? Is this what you're saying? And they can confirm and deny it. And then we do the little emotional detective work. I'm sensing that you're feeling anxious or scared or you know all of that. And then the eye messages is I feel a little bit more anxious. And then the eye messages is I feel X, about Y, you know I feel, and name that feeling word about and name the specific behavior. Sometimes psychologists get tripped up and I think my opinion only and they use that eye message to confront negative behavior and it gets a bad rap. But that's not the eye message I'm talking about. I'm talking about just standing for yourself in the conversation, right On my feelings level. Gotcha, that makes sense, yeah.

Speaker 1: 30:25

So those are great tools, yes, and something that we all need to be aware of because, like we've said, our children will model what we do. So if we're speaking with them in that way and showing them respect and giving them opportunities to share their thoughts and opinions, they'll learn to do the same with others. So, well, before we run out of time, do you have any other tips on how we, as parents, can make a direct impact on our kids and preventing mental health issues, and then also addressing them when we know that they're present?

Speaker 2: 30:58

Right. First of all, don't be afraid to ask for help if you're concerned. You know there are wonderful professionals out there and coaches, and that probably is a good time to talk about what's the difference between therapy and coaching. You know, therapy looks at how a specific thought or behavior began and how we can fulfill that need now so that it doesn't trip us up. And coaching is a little bit more goal oriented, it's more skills based. So we certainly look at childhood wounds I'm not saying that we don't, but we see ourselves as fully responsible for that and the coach is there to mentor you through a growth process with some specific goals in mind.

Speaker 2: 31:50

And that can happen individually as a parent. That can happen for teens there's teen coaching and that can happen as a family. And that's what I love to do. That's what I get so excited about is working with parents and teens together so that everybody gets these skills and everybody is using them at the same time and being heard and feeling heard and empowered, and then the whole family dynamic shifts and it's amazing how quickly that can happen.

Speaker 1: 32:18

Oftentimes it's just a matter of having somebody from the outside part of the conversation, right, I think that that then it makes us. You know, I think that makes a big difference, because I think it forces us to listen to each other a little bit better, because somebody on the outside is hearing this for the first time.

Speaker 2: 32:36

And you know, I just think it makes a big difference in our listening abilities, not just to say yeah, and you know we can trip up those old shame wires that I'm not doing it right, I'm not pairing right, and it's really not about that. It's that the social tides are changing so incredibly much and we put so much pressure on parents to be all do all, know all, and there is no way anyone person can do that. You know we're missing a society underneath us, we're missing a family support network underneath us. Even if you're blessed to have a grandparent nearby, you know there were other supports at other times and life was slower. So because we're in this tremendous time of social change, I think everybody needs a coach, I think everybody needs help, you know, just to feel sane in the middle of these ships.

Speaker 1: 33:27

Right and if, at the end, we get out of it that we've been able to, like you did, raise two successful women that are also, you know, a part of your life and friends with you today, even though I'm sure there were times and teens that they didn't always agree with you and didn't always like you right, the fact that you could come out of that.

Speaker 2: 33:45

I still, you know, but we had the tools to deal with that. You know it's really powerful to know that nobody's going away and that everybody can walk away, feeling loved and heard, and even when we're not necessarily in agreement, you know, that's okay, we're different, Right.

Speaker 1: 34:04

Well, Laura, we really appreciate all your insight and your time today, and tell us again where people can find you, and I know you have a great freebie that every parent of a teenager needs to get. Tell us more about that.

Speaker 2: 34:15

Right, and also that these choices start early right. Remember I said the red shirt or the blue shirt you can create those open-ended questions early and really deep in your connection with your child, no matter what age.

Speaker 1: 34:26

And so that list of 20 open-ended questions is at lauralregancom and it's called 20 Conversation Starters to use with your twins or teens Fantastic, and we'll make sure we link to that in the show notes so it's super easy for you, if you're listening right now, to be able to go grab that and check out more of what Laura has to offer. Connect with her on social and through her website. Again, Laura, we really appreciate your time today. Thank you so much.

Speaker 2: 34:51

Thank you so much for having me and thanks for doing this and putting this out there for parents.

Speaker 1: 34:56

Yeah, well, our goal is to do this together, right? Because, like you said the whole conversation, that's what we need, right? We need that support. So that's the goal. Thank you, take care.