Speaker 1: 0:35

Welcome back to Speak Out. Stand Out. I'm Elizabeth Green, and today's guest is Melissa Brander. Melissa is the founder and owner of Pocket Homeschool, where she helps families homeschool using her smart resource technique. That means things that are simple to implement, meaningful family experiences, academically oriented, reasonably priced and tools for explorative learning. She also lives in the Midwest with her husband and her two sons, who are homeschooled, and I'm sure you've learned a lot about what you do and what you teach through experience, right, Melissa?

Speaker 2: 1:06

Yes, for sure. My kids have always been homeschooled, so it's been a journey to watch them grow up and kind of become their own persons, and that's been so much fun and such a joy. I'm glad that we did this, even though it isn't the right choice for everybody. It's been absolutely the right choice for us.

Speaker 1: 1:24

Yeah, and you know, just to preface too, if you're listening and you're like, well, I don't homeschool my kids, that's okay. I don't either. My kids are public school kids. The conversations we have here are applicable to any family at any place, but there might be some things we point out particularly that might apply to homeschool or public school kids. But definitely a conversation worth hearing for everybody with children and something that I think is such an important topic. Obviously, it's what my business is built around, right, but teaching public speaking skills to our kids and the opportunities that sometimes we have to seek out in order to do this, whether they go to school or they're homeschooled. So, melissa, I'm excited you're here today to talk about that, because I think this is one of the key things that we need to teach our kids, and whether they're in school or homeschooled, there are not enough opportunities for them. So let's dive in. First of all, what is public speaking?

Speaker 2: 2:17

Yeah, it's hard to you know when we talk about terms like that.

Speaker 2: 2:21

It's kind of one of those things that everybody everybody has heard the term public speaking and some people even have a phobia right around public speaking.

Speaker 2: 2:31

But when I like to think about public speaking, I like to think about it as you preparing or sometimes even impromptu speaking in front of people that you may not normally speak in or for like a specific purpose, because you know you might chat to people and I might not consider that public speaking. But if you are focused on a specific purpose, like, say, you're demonstrating something, that can be a form of public speaking. Or you are in front of a group even maybe it's like just a loose group but you're going to stand up there and you're going to it can be a form of public speaking. Or you are in front of a group even Maybe it's like just a loose group but you're going to stand up there and you're going to explain the rules of the game that you're playing. That's a form of public speaking too. So I think of it as when you've moved beyond a casual conversation and you're speaking to other people and you have a purpose in that speaking and it isn't just to have a conversation.

Speaker 1: 3:19

Yeah, and you're absolutely right. I mean, they say that public speaking is the number one fear for most Americans, and I think it is such an important thing that we present to our kids opportunities to face it early on, because fears just grow as we get older if we don't conquer them. And I love how you broke that down too, because when we start our classes, oftentimes we'll have them do like a little mini speech about who they are, their favorite things, right. And then afterwards we're like you just did a speech that was public speaking and then all of a sudden they're like oh okay, maybe it's not this horribly scary thing that I need to be afraid of. And we so we do actually incorporate this into our lives more than we probably realize, right.

Speaker 2: 4:00

Yes, and I think sometimes if we make like a big deal about it and be like, oh, now you're going to public speak, it can become more intimidating. But if we look for those opportunities, like you said, where we see it happening and then point it out to our kids afterwards, then they can have this positive association with it and realize that they do have the skills, in fact, to do it Absolutely.

Speaker 1: 4:24

So let's talk about ways that we can have our kids practice public speaking in a home, out in the community. What are some opportunities that you have found in your search for giving your kids more opportunities than this?

Speaker 2: 4:36

Well, one one thing that we kind of enjoy sometimes is entering contests, and they may not even be like specific public speech contests, but I'll give an example of one that we entered earlier this year. It is called America 250. And it's because of the 250th anniversary of the founding of America's coming up and there was a speech contest associated with this. Well, it wasn't all speech. You could like do art or whatever. But one of my kids was like I'm going to do the video option and I was like, okay, great, I suggest that you write down first what you are going to say, because you only have I think the video limit was like two minutes. I'm like you only have two minutes. That's a really tight timeline. If you are just going to like get up there and start talking, you may do something. That's really long. So I suggest you write it down and then that way I'm kind of like coaching him on some steps that he can take to be able to public speak with a time limit, which is a different skill than just getting up there and saying something when you have no time limit and and you can just say whatever for however long you want. Another way is for homeschool parents, in particular if you're involved in a homeschool co-op, especially as your kids get older, to have them teach some classes at the co-op and and then that's a great opportunity for them to public speak. My son, my oldest son, and a friend. They have started a club doing various service activities and last over the winter we did one where they were like making toys for dogs and cats at the Humane Society and we had them beforehand. Him and his friend tell a little bit about when you do kind things for other people or animals, how it changes your brain, and that was an opportunity for them to practice their public speaking skills too. And another way that we've used really successfully is I will sometimes have my kids like make a PowerPoint presentation and then maybe they're not going to give the PowerPoint presentation. Well, actually they don't use PowerPoint anymore, but in my mind it's still PowerPoint, right, right, right. And I will have them record themselves talking about the PowerPoint so that, even if they don't show it to anyone, they have still practiced the skill of talking in front of, so that even if they don't show it to anyone, they have still practiced the skill of talking in front of somebody. And if you have a kid that might be more shy or reluctant to talk in front of somebody. Having them practice in that way can be really good. And another thing that we sometimes do is we will call up relatives or friends and say, hey, I wrote this thing or I created this thing. Can I tell you about it? And have that kind of presentation there.

Speaker 2: 7:29

It doesn't have to be to a lot of people to count as practice. It's something, it's a scalable skill, right, if you can talk to five people, you can scale that skill to be able to talk to 50 people. And so I think sometimes we get it in our heads that it has to be a large group of people you're talking to to count as a public speaking skill. But you can be practicing those skills even on a very small scale because they're scalable. It is maybe more intimidating to talk to 50 people than five people, but it's still the same skill. At the end of the day. You are still having to give a talk that someone else understands and that you're clear and that you're enunciating, and so it's still the same skills and it's scalable very easily. So I think that there's benefit in starting with small practicing and then you can easily go to lots of people more. So if you don't have the opportunity to go to lots of people, you can start very small.

Speaker 1: 8:30

Yeah, I love that. One of the things that we suggest here is we have a freebie that you can get on our website with 52 impromptu speech topics, and there are things like would you rather live in a spaceship or a submarine, you know like just silly things that kids love to think about and have opinions and ideas on, and we always encourage them to sit down, let your child stand in front of you and give them that environment, as if they are doing a speech instead of just having a conversation. I had never thought to incorporate the idea of having them call family or friends and sharing with them too. I think that's so great because, even if they're not face-to-face, they're talking with people that they're not typically talking with you know all throughout the day.

Speaker 1: 9:15

It's a little bit different when it's our family. That's a great idea.

Speaker 2: 9:18

Or sometimes I'll have them say, if someone isn't available, I'll have them record it, giving them upfront, and then say, okay, we recorded this, this is a really cool. We watch it together. And then I say, who else do you think might like to watch this? And then I can. I usually, if it's if it's going to family members, I kind of prep them and I say, um, can you give them this specific feedback on how, on how they went instead? Because sometimes when you're talking to relatives, they just want to tell them they did a great job. And that is great. I love, I love that too. But if you can say, could you specifically, um, watch for something, some skill or some part of it and give some feedback on that specifically? I would say you know, this is what we're working on. Can you watch for that and see if you could give some specific feedback about that? That can be really helpful to them to get some extra feedback from somebody who is not in their immediate family.

Speaker 1: 10:10

Yeah, that's a great tip. And as hard as it is sometimes to hear constructive criticism, that's the way we grow right? And if you're a parent listening to this and you're like, okay, I'm going to think about doing these things with my kids, I would also suggest that, instead of just saying great job, right, that's easy, like you just said, find a very specific thing that they did really well, compliment them on that and then also give them tips to do something else really well too, instead of that was really great, but you need to slow down. All they hear then is I need to slow down, I didn't do well, but if you're like, you made amazing eye contact. I felt like you were talking to me the whole time. That was so great. I just had a little bit of trouble keeping up because you tend to talk fast, like me, right? So that's very specific feedback. I think is is is key for the positives and the ways that we want them to grow.

Speaker 2: 11:02

Yes, for sure, and I think, like prepping someone ahead of time what you're looking for or what you worked on like, say you, you did do a speech and you worked on a slowing down because your kid talks really fast and you can tell the person that you're sending it to or that they're going to talk to, like they've been working really hard on this Can you take a look and see if it feels like they have accomplished it or if they feel like there's farther for them to go? Because sometimes, uh, if, if you're in that position where you want them to get feedback and you just ask for feedback, people will give you kind of vague feedback. So if you give them like something specific to watch for, then that can help them to give you feedback. That's going to help your child and especially if it is something like, say, you're working on something where they're supposed to be telling someone how to do directions, you can ask them if they're understandable.

Speaker 2: 12:01

I don't know if anyone has ever done this, but I can't take credit for this idea because I just saw it somewhere. Right, it's not my idea, but to take a really simple task and have your kids give instructions for that really simple task because it's a lot to think through and then you or someone else following the instructions and that will help them see the parts that they missed, like doing something really simple that you might not think about it, like brush your teeth or make a sandwich, or just something that is really basic to help them think through how to give clear directions that actually make sense.

Speaker 1: 12:33

It is, and I knew exactly what you're talking about. Same. I saw the same thing In our class. We do the peanut butter and jelly speech. They have to write a speech on how to make a peanut butter and jelly sandwich and, although we're virtual, we can all see each other and I make the sandwich as they're telling me how to do it, exactly how they're telling me to do it, and it usually ends up with the jar of peanut butter and the jar of jelly in between two slices of bread, and they think it's hysterical. They love it, but they it is such a clear message Like you didn't, you didn't, you didn't tell me.

Speaker 1: 13:05

I mean, I did exactly what you told me to do, right, and it is um. It is such a great way for them to learn because they think it's so funny, but it is also really a lesson. I love that idea and if you're listening and you don't know what we're talking about, google it. There are YouTube videos on tell your kid to tell you how to make a peanut butter and jelly sandwich and it's hysterical, it's easy to do at home and it's a great, great way to teach them how to, like you said, give clear instructions.

Speaker 2: 13:28

Yes, Because it's easy to give instructions for something that somebody else already knows how to do right, but in life you're going to eventually run into a situation where you have to give instructions, maybe to a large group of people, where some know what they're doing but some really don't know what they're doing. And to be able to give those instructions in a clear way is a really valuable and useful public speaking skill that I think sometimes we kind of forget about because we tend to think of it as like giving a speech about a topic instead of thinking about how, when you are like instructing a lot, maybe you're going to grow up and be in charge of, like, a river cleanup at your river and you have all these people who are here to volunteer and you need to be the one that gives them instructions. That's the kind of public speaking too, and I don't know that we always practice that skill because we don't always think about it as a public speaking skill.

Speaker 1: 14:19

Right, Absolutely no. I'm totally there with you and I think that's fantastic. It's such a great idea. I wanted to circle back to one of the first things you said was encouraging your kids to enter contests. I had a couple of questions here. One how do you find these? Assuming that it's not a local thing, that you know a business or something is putting on in your community how do you find these, and were your kids eager to do it, or did you kind of have to push them a little bit to participate?

Speaker 2: 14:47

Uh, so usually my kids are eager to do it because we talk about what the prize is like. For this contest in particular, the prize is like trips, like travel to various, like American historical places or like national parks and stuff, and my kids were like totally game because they want the prize, even though we do talk about the fact that there are going to be a lot of kids entering and you may not win a prize. We also talk about the fact that you for sure will not win if you do not enter Right and so and so, uh, that that is usually enough to motivate my kids and get their excitement going. They start dreaming a little bit about it. Um, because that is the thing about contests is there usually is a prize, and as long as you keep their expectations in check and aren't like, oh, you're going to for sure win this because you can't know that. There's no way you can know this, it can be a great opportunity to practice. And what I say sometimes is like, especially if it's like an annual contest or a contest that's going to come around again, I say like every time you enter, you'll learn something and you'll grow your skills a little bit more, and so maybe you don't win this year when you enter, but if you enter again next year you'll have a better idea of what you're doing and then maybe down the line in the future you will win.

Speaker 2: 16:04

And in terms of where to find them, I think I don't have like one centralized place I go to to find them. I just sort of keep my eyes and ears open. This one, I think I saw somebody talking about it on an Instagram story and even if I can't do it right then I'm just like write it down, make a note for myself and come back to look into it further to find out the rules. You've got to always check the eligibility requirements. Sometimes they're only open to people who live in a certain area or they're only open to kids of a certain age range. But there's, I mean, maybe there's a hub out there and after this podcast somebody will write you and say, oh, there's totally a hub where all of these things live. But I don't know when. I just kind of keep my eyes and ears open for these things.

Speaker 2: 16:48

I think this is something that I personally did as a teenager and I actually did end up winning one contest, because the more local, the better, right. And I say that because oftentimes local contests have a smaller pool that they're drawing from and so when they draw from that smaller pool you kind of have better odds in some way. Like I want a speech competition for the VFW and it was like every chapter, uh, was giving their own there. They had their own like local winners at the chapter and then they sent those on to like the state level and they sent those onto the national level and I did not win the state or the national level, but I won the local level because there was a much smaller number of kids that entered.

Speaker 2: 17:38

And so if a big, huge competition feels like completely unrealistic, sometimes entering at that local level can feel more achievable to your kids. So if they're like, ah, I can't do this because I'm never going to win, then just go smaller. And when I won that I got to actually. Then I had to record my speech and put it on a CD back in the day and then when I won I had to actually go and give my speech. So there can be layers of different practice as you move along in contests too.

Speaker 1: 18:12

Yes, absolutely. I was thinking too when you were talking about that, about the, because I did competitive public speaking too and did a lot of local contests. That, you're right, were much smaller, but most of them were in person, too, and so it is nice now that we're not limited to just things that we can drive to that are within our geographical area. We do have so many more opportunities online, but keeping your eyes open for those in your community. There's often scholarship money out there and, like you said, even if you don't win, winning is a bonus. Right, that's a bonus. Just doing it is such good experience and I afterwards, even though I'd be so nervous going into it, would feel so confident afterwards because I got up there and did that, and it's just that feeling that is so important for our kids to have, right, and so we have to put them in these opportunities.

Speaker 2: 19:05

Yes, for sure.

Speaker 2: 19:06

And another tip about that is I sit down with my kids and we look at the judging criteria together, because a lot of times they'll break down and it'll be like 25% to this and 25% to that, and so then, um, and I, sometimes it will be like I like when they're preparing for a contest, depending on the rules of the contest.

Speaker 2: 19:27

I am limited in what guidance that I can give them, right, but we can always sit down and look together at the things that the judges are looking for and talk about them and not do it for them, but just show them like, instead of sending them into a blind, help them feel like they have a good handle on what the subject is about and what the contest is about. And even with other kinds of public speaking, sitting down and talking about it beforehand, talking about what it might be like, what we're even down to breaking down to like, okay, you're going to do this, you are going to like stand over here and you're going to, you know, talk for this amount of time and it's going to be this amount of people and just setting the stage so their expectations are really clear, so that they know and understand what it looks like can be another way to kind of take away some of that uncertainty about it.

Speaker 1: 20:21

Yeah, absolutely, cause we, we certainly fear the unknown. So you're right, just having that understanding of what to expect going into it helps a lot. So what do you say to the parent who's like my kid is nowhere near ready to do a competitive speech? We're just starting to try to figure out how to practice. What are some activities and things we could do, if this is a really brand new concept to a family?

Speaker 2: 20:45

I would say start by reading aloud, like you don't have to, like write anything that you have done yourself, you know.

Speaker 2: 20:53

Just grab a book off the shelf and have them stand in front of you and have them read aloud, and then that way they don't have to necessarily think about the content of what they are creating themselves.

Speaker 2: 21:04

They can focus on speaking clearly and making eye contact and other things like that.

Speaker 2: 21:09

And it can be a book that they're super familiar with, that they've read a lot of times, so they feel confident about the material in front of them. And that can be a really good way to practice if they're not ready for writing their whole thing yet, just having them read and pretend like it is something that they wrote, and having them practice those skills without having to worry about the content or having to worry about memorize or having to worry about forgetting what they want to say, because it's all on the page right there in front of them. And if they already know it, so they're familiar with it, so they can feel confident that there's not going to be any surprises where they're like, oh no, all of a sudden there's this big word I don't know. I think that can be a good way to get started in a low-pressure way, and if even that feels too intimidating, just have them sit next to you and read it out loud to you and practice speaking clearly, and then you can move from there to the next steps.

Speaker 1: 22:06

Yeah, I love that and I think too. I tell people a lot of times too. You can do little things too. It doesn't have to be a prepared speech or even reading out of a book. It could just be have your kid tell you three things about Minecraft, right, whatever?

Speaker 1: 22:23

it is that they're passionate about, and have them call and order pizza on pizza night, have them order their food when you're at a restaurant instead of ordering for them. And I'm guilty of this too. As moms, we just tend to take over right, and it's easier for us just to spout things off, for us to make the phone call. But even at my son, my 15 year old, just got his learner's permit and we went up to the DMV and I walked up and I said here's what we're here for. And the woman, she looked at my son and she said okay, now you tell me what you're here for. And I was like, ah yes, that was a perfect opportunity for him in a unique situation for him. He wasn't used to the environment to speak to a stranger.

Speaker 2: 23:03

And those opportunities are all around us If we have patience to let them do it and sometimes another thing is if other adults in your life know that you're trying to work on this skill, like if you've talked to them about it, sometimes they will present opportunities.

Speaker 2: 23:20

For example, when my kids were younger, we attended an in-person prayer gathering.

Speaker 2: 23:28

My kids were pretty young and mostly they like sat and read and colored.

Speaker 2: 23:31

And then one day the leader of the group was like would it be okay if you had my oldest at the time, who was, I think, six or seven maybe, if he every week just came and told us a couple of things about a country and then we would pray for that country?

Speaker 2: 23:49

So we went home and he like we had a big map and he would pick different places and we would read books about it. And then he would like we'd work together to take little notes about what he wanted to say, and then he would say that and it was only like five or six people that he already knew. So it wasn't a big deal to be talking in front of them, but it gave him such good practice and such good confidence. So sometimes it's as simple as letting the other people in your life know that you want to work on this skill with your kids and watch for them, and they might have an idea that you might. I would have never thought of that, but she asked me and all I had to do was say yes and then work at him with home to prepare him, and so I think sometimes we think public speaking is a skill for older kids, but even little kids can be practicing this skill as well.

Speaker 1: 24:40

Absolutely and and you know and then pushing our kids, whenever they're they're not super excited, to do that right, Because, like we talked about, it is a real fear that many people have, and it does start at a young age. I remember doing different things like that as well. That would always make me so nervous, but my parents encouraged me to do it and it ultimately changed my life, and that's what I always try to explain to people too. A lot of what we teach is debate, and I always say you know what? Only a small fraction of our debaters are ever going to go on to debate at the collegiate level or anything like that. That's really not what we're there for. We're there just to build that confidence in communication because that is going to apply to every aspect of their life going forward. I think it is one of those. It's looked at like as an extracurricular right, when it should be a core subject, I feel like in teaching our children how to communicate.

Speaker 2: 25:30

Yes, for sure, and it's just really wonderful, the opportunities, that kind of rise that you might not even think of as opportunities, but when you're keeping your eyes open for them, when you are being intentional about it, when you're thinking about it and thinking about what are the opportunities we can have for practice.

Speaker 2: 25:47

It Like your story about being at the DMV. My kids are in the library. We go to the library a lot. Okay, we are library people and they know a lot of people in the library and I will. Always they'll be like oh, I don't know where this book is, and even though I know the library catalog inside and out backwards and I could find it for them, I always encourage them go talk to the librarians and ask them, because that is a way for them to build that skill, instead of me just being like, oh yeah, I know where that is. I can totally find that I am teaching them to use their resources because I won't always be around and if they know how to do it, then they'll be able to do it even when they're older and when they're adults as well.

Speaker 1: 26:26

Yeah, I love it, and that is sometimes out of our instincts as moms. Right, we want to fix things, we want to take care of things, we want to do things for our children, but making sure, like you said, being intentional, that we're stepping back at times when these are learning opportunities is so crucial. Well, melissa, this has been a really helpful conversation and you have lots of great resources for homeschooling families, and so tell us and we'll make sure we have the links to everything in the show notes so it's easy for you just to hop down and find Melissa and more of what she offers. But, melissa, tell us really quickly what people can find if they're looking for some resources.

Speaker 2: 27:00

Yeah, I have. There's a link that Elizabeth is going to include to my regular rotating freebie and in there it's always something different. I change it monthly so you can hop onto that link and have a fun surprise. And then you'll be on my newsletter too, which is called Five for Friday. Every Friday I send out five things you can use in your homeschool. I mostly keep it under 500 words. I think I've broken that twice in four years, so it's a quick read. There's going to be links and other things in there that you can use in your homeschool. And then, um, oh, I was like I say oh, my membership. I also have a membership called the smart homeschool society and in there there are workshops and text, support and encouragement and it's just a really good place to get connected as a homeschool mom, to learn and keep growing your own learning so you can be a lifelong learner, and that will empower you to homeschool your kids successfully.

Speaker 1: 27:55

Fantastic. Well, we'll make sure all those links are there, including your socials and everything. So if you want to connect with Melissa, just look in those show notes and you'll be able to hop right over there. So, melissa, thank you again for taking your time today. These were some fantastic, actionable tips. I love it. That's what I like and tell me exactly what to do so we can go do it. So this was a great conversation. Thank you so much for having me.