Speaker 1: 0:35

Welcome back to Speak Out. Stand Out. I'm Elizabeth Green and today's guest is Nellie Harden. Nellie is a wife, mother of four daughters, author and speaker, and she spends her time focusing on helping women and those raising them build a foundation of worth, esteem and confidence to live the life that they were created for. And, Nellie, we are super excited to have you here today to talk about all things girls, but also things that apply to the boy moms in the listening area too. Right, absolutely. Thank you so much for having me. So, first of all, I will say you know, I am a boy mom and I went through the whole. I really wanted a daughter. Whenever I found out both of mine were going to be boys. Now that we're in the tween and teen, realm.

Speaker 1: 1:24

I have to say that I am glad that I don't have daughters right now. So I am excited to talk with you because, as a daughter with a mother, I understand that this can be a very challenging and rewarding dynamic, but very challenging especially during those tween and teen years. So, grateful to have you. And before we kind of dive into the full conversation how, what did you kind of go this path after you became a girl mom, or was this kind of always your passion, or how did you end up here?

Speaker 2: 1:54

Well, it's a long, convoluted story that really starts from the beginning and you know just real quick. It's funny to say when I tell people that I have four daughters that are, you know, all adolescents. I have four daughters between 15 and 19. Right now, the general reaction is always oh, yes, just yes. Anything you're feeling and thinking, yes, you know. But also wonderful, but yes, and so for me. And how I got here. I was really so. I was a.

Speaker 2: 2:28

Obviously I was a young woman myself once still am but I was a younger woman once and you know I left home at 17. I moved seven hours away from home to go to college. I moved seven hours away from home to go to college and I would not have been able to tell myself or anyone back then. But I did not have an internal structure at all of worth or esteem or confidence in myself. And then that meant, when I was released out into the world, I started chasing worth anywhere you can find it, because it truly is an innate human need that we have, and if we don't have it instilled in us and built from within, then we start chasing it from any outside source. And that is what I did, and it's a very unfortunate common story that I hear so much. Among I mean women, you know, young women. Among I mean women, you know young women 12 all the way to 82, you know. And so that's what I did. I went down some really rough corridors chasing that worth, and it led to a lot of pain and drama and trauma that took decades of healing from. It took decades to even understand what I had to heal from, and then it took even longer to figure out how to start putting myself back together and where to build and what to build, because I didn't have it in the beginning. So it wasn't like I was going back to something necessarily. I had to build something new within myself. So that, and in the midst of all of that, I was granted and blessed with these four daughters that I had within four years of each other.

Speaker 2: 4:07

And so there was this, this one moment that really just kind of compelled me forward on this track, and it was when I was my. We almost lost my husband. He was has a cardiac issue and he was in the hospital having heart surgery. We almost lost him. I lost my dad when I was just one year old and I had four babies that were 422 and zero. My middle two are twins. Well, she was a few months old, not zero, but anyway.

Speaker 2: 4:37

So I was sitting there and I was like, wow, I only have a very limited window. I call it the 65-70. That's how many days are in 18 years. So around 6,570 days.

Speaker 2: 4:51

That's my window in order to build within these young women and one of them was just a few months old as I'm looking down on her in order to build in them worth esteem and confidence, because we're always told we need to have it or you know, you are worthy. Well, it's kind of like when your husband comes up to you and says you're so beautiful, but you're not really feeling it on the inside and you're like, yeah, thanks, but I don't feel that right now. Right, thanks, but I don't feel that right now, right. And I needed to figure out a way for not only myself but to pass on and build within my daughters a way for them to know intrinsically that they are worthy and they have value and they can appreciate themselves and believe in themselves.

Speaker 2: 5:34

And that has been just the precipice of all the work that I've done. And now my daughters are, like I said, between 15 and 19. And I've worked in positive family disciplines my entire backgrounds in biology and psychology and so I just started putting everything together I knew and diving into the research and work and reading thousands and thousands and thousands of pages and just really being an observer and then testing theories and putting something together. So that's a little bit brief. Look into how I got to where I am today.

Speaker 1: 6:05

Well, and I think what you're doing is obviously incredibly important. And I think about you know, my sense of self-worth, and it was so growing up, it was so tied to doing good at things. You know, and you, oh you, you won this competition or you did really great on this, or you made the basketball team or things like that. And then when we get older and you know we, our lives are not surrounded by competitions and things for people to say, yeah, job at that, that kind of goes away and it all of a sudden you're like, well, who am I really and why am I worthy? Down deep, because I thought it was because I was doing these good things and now I'm not hearing that regularly, you know, and I think that's kind of a common thing for our kids to experience.

Speaker 1: 6:48

So, and I also very much love the, the how to's we talk a lot in society about the importance of these things, but how do we actually do it? And that is the hard, that's, that's the hard part, right? So well, I'm very excited for you to share some of these tips and strategies with us, because our whole focus at Speak Out Standout is building confidence in, in kids, and so I I'm just excited to dive in so I know you have a couple of strategies also just to back up. You kind of broke my heart with the 65-70.

Speaker 2: 7:20

Sorry, I know.

Speaker 1: 7:22

When you think about it, you're like my goodness, that doesn't. That's just not very long you know, so well, let's talk about strategies for like what is your, what is your go-to, what is your like? You have a process, you have strategies that you share with parents. How do we actually build worth and confidence in our kids, outside of being like great job on your report, great job on your grades? Where?

Speaker 2: 7:43

I was running into such a problem, especially having four daughters born within four years of each other. All of these books and all of these speakers I was going to were blanket parenting, you know, and it was like, oh, this is what you should do. And there was these shoulds right and I'm like that might work for this one. That is not going to work for that one Right. And so, number one, you need to look at all of your kids and the kids that you have impact and influence on, whether you're a parent or not, but you are impacting and influencing someone in the next generation. You need to look at them as an individual. There is no one thing that you can do to every child that is going to be perfect, fit for them, and so that was a lesson I had to learn early on. I call my daughters four corners of a square. They are very, very different Even my twins, very, very different young women, and so learning that helped me see them through a lens that was unique and individual to them, and to this day, we parent them differently, we discipline them differently, we console them differently, based on their needs. And so, first and foremost, you want to set up a good, secure base, right, you think about if you're building this foundation which you can have worth, esteem and confidence, which you can kind of look at as like a three tier cake, is the first thing that comes to mind, but it's much more sturdy than you don't want a cake. You're going to fall through that. But you know three tiered structure worth is on the bottom, then esteem and then confidence, because at the very precipice, at the top, you want them to leave home as a self-disciplined leader of their life. Right and so. But that worth piece needs to set on something it just can't float around. So what do you? What does it set on? And that is security. It has to sit on a secure base and this is something that and I don't know if you've talked with your listeners so much about this, but I have found in the work that I do, more and more unsecure the foundations are of so many, especially young women post COVID.

Speaker 2: 10:12

There was so much that was robbed of our young women within the COVID, especially if your daughter or young women that you work with are and young men too. I just work with young women, so pardon me if I say that a lot, but it goes for both If they were between sixth grade and about 11th grade, okay. So especially that timeframe, there was major chunks of personal and social development that were just missed during that time that then they were placed back in and assumed that they were okay because we just kept going on. And you can kind of think about it like you show up for a new job, there's three weeks worth of training to do. You miss the first two weeks, you go to week three and they're already building on everything that happened in the first two weeks but you weren't there and you're just expected to assimilate in and there's a lot of chaos, a lot of making up and a lot of confusion that happens with that. And over and over again I am seeing the results of this. I mean, just twice this week, two young women and a young man that I saw going through this and there was major brain development changes for young women versus young men through COVID that were tested by MRI as well. So it was a huge impact. So if you have someone or influence, an impact, somebody that was in sixth to 11th grade, especially during that time, they might be going through things then or now that are post effects of that. So have a little bit more grace. There was so much brain impact that was you could see on a brain MRI from the COVID lockdown, especially in young women. There was over 30 places in a young woman's brain. There was one place in a young man's brain on average that was affected.

Speaker 2: 12:12

So all that to say you need a secure base, and my point in saying that is their security was rocked during that time and, frankly, all of us adults, our own security was being rocked at the time. So it was so easy to just be in survival mode with the kids. They got through, everything is okay, but their social and personal development was very much on the line and we were so distracted with everything happening that we couldn't help them through that. And so we need to reestablish a lot of security with especially that area of our kids. But security at home, security in relationships with you, security with their schools, which obviously gets pretty rocked today with events happening and things like that. So you want to give them as secure a base as possible.

Speaker 2: 13:05

And then gets into the individual.

Speaker 2: 13:07

Everyone needs security, so that's pretty much the same for everyone.

Speaker 2: 13:10

But then we get into the individuation, if you will, with worth.

Speaker 2: 13:15

So there's five pillars of worth, and that is I need to be seen, I need to be heard, I need to be loved, I need to belong somewhere and I need to have a purpose.

Speaker 2: 13:29

And that is different for every human being.

Speaker 2: 13:32

All of us have everyone who has been, is and will be has those five needs, but how they are filled is different for every person, and so how one of my daughters, for example, feels seen when she walks into a room is different than how another daughter does. And having those conversations and testing things out in order to see, you know, how is it that you feel most seen when you are with me or we're spending time together, or when you're at school or what have you, those are the conversations to have, because that will build her worth, you know. Does she truly feel like she belongs somewhere? Does she truly feel like she belongs at home? Does she have purpose in her roles in the home and out in her community? Does she have responsibilities that secure her to that place? Does she have roles out in the community that she helps serve others and others are counting on her Right? All of these are really really important. So seeing, heard, loved, belong and purpose that's where it really starts to come together for our kids.

Speaker 1: 14:38

Well, I love how you're saying that this is so different for every individual and that makes so much sense. I have two boys and I'm very, very different. But how do we talk about this with our kids to make sure that we are providing these pillars in the way that works for them, because at that age they don't have the communication to say well, I really I need you to do this for me, right? So how?

Speaker 2: 15:02

do we figure it out? Well, number one I really really cannot stress enough and recommend enough to have weekly one-on-one sessions with each of your kids. And so we have four kids and one of them is in college. Three of them are still at home. They're juniors and freshmen in high school and we have every Monday night and every Thursday night at nine o'clock.

Speaker 2: 15:25

We have one-on-one time with the kids. Monday my husband takes one, I take the time with the kids Monday, my husband takes one, I take the other, and then on Thursday, my husband takes one, I take the other. The next week we switch. So any one of my kids knows that on Monday or Thursday, depending on what their day is, mom or dad is going to be in my room With our college student. We get on FaceTime and we do it over FaceTime and so that keeps a constant, reliable connection that you can have, connection point that you can have with that child.

Speaker 2: 15:54

Because we have family time each night between six and nine. We try to, you know, put away our any electronics or anything like that and have have dinner and stuff like that. But there's certain things that are going to be said in a one-on-one that are not going to be said in the family environment around the table, and certainly not when other people are around. So making that intimate contact during that one-on-one time is really important, and making sure that one-on-one time is not always like, okay, let's talk about all your deepest, darkest secrets, right, we don't need it to be that either, because that will be intimidating and no fun, and so you want that time to be filled with, you know, fun and laughter.

Speaker 2: 16:40

Sometimes courageous conversations need to be had in there, asking them about their friends and their interests and what's going on, and just really asking a lot of questions and diving into their life, but also making sure it's a two-way street, because part of that you know that I need to be heard, right? Is you can come into that space and be like, yeah, well, I'm having this issue with somebody at work or someone I serve with, or, you know, with what I'm going on or with what's going on and I don't know what. Do you think that? What are some ideas that you have about what's going on in my life? Right, and then really listen, our kids are this infinite well of knowledge that are not heard enough. They're not heard often enough enough, they're not heard often enough, and so, but asking them what their opinion is on real, actual matters that matter, then it gives them this sense of, oh, my ideas actually matter, someone wants to hear them, I am worthy right? So this one-on-one time is a two-way street. It's a connection point between the two of you, so that is how you can do it or when you can do it, but just ask a lot of questions in that time. And one other thing that's really important is to understand their learning style, and information is like breathing. Everything that I am saying right now and everything that you're saying, even my facial expressions, my body language, everything that is me teaching and everything that I take in is me learning, and it's this constant breath of information that happens all day long, except for when I'm sleeping, and so it's really important to understand how they learn so you can adapt how you're teaching to make sure there's no language barrier between the two of you and this my youngest, who's 15,.

Speaker 2: 18:42

The other day I was trying really hard to get a concept through to her, but I was speaking, I was using auditory sounds and I was speaking to her and it was like there was just the glazed over look, and we've all, as parents, we've all seen the glazed over look, right, and I know she used to be a picture learner, a visual learner, and I am too, quite frankly. But I was talking to her and I asked her. I said you know, I know, we, we had you tested before, and by tested I just mean, take a questionnaire, you can find them online or what have you. What kind of learner are you? There's four major ones, there's like four minor ones, but just Google it and and find one. You could find a free one, no problem.

Speaker 2: 19:26

But I was asking her and she said, well, I really like pictures. So, sure enough, I wheeled over that whiteboard that we have right up here in my office and I drew out what we were talking about and I was like, does this make more sense? She said, yes, that makes more sense, I get it. And then we were able to move forward. Her cortisol levels went down, she stopped working from her amygdala in the back, started using her you know what is under construction in her frontal cortex right now and she was able to think again, instead of me just droning on with words that then when she reacts, she's really only reacting to the last maybe six seconds. That I said and not everything I was trying to get across, for you know two, three minutes, et cetera. So learning what their learning language is can break down those barriers and help communication immensely, based on what you're trying to share with them and help them do.

Speaker 1: 20:24

I think that is so interesting because we you know that's what teachers do right in the classroom and what we do. You know we try to help our kids learn the best way when we're helping with homework. You know we kind of understand, like you said, if I, if we're teaching math, I can draw this out and you might learn it better this way or understand it.

Speaker 1: 20:40

I've never thought about doing that and the the concept of just life conversation it's just every day you know, and obviously, if they, like you just said, everything we're doing is learning and teaching, that is. I've never heard that before and I love that and that is that is.

Speaker 2: 20:57

It makes perfect sense, yeah, and it's. It just really helps with the understanding from your perspective too. And here's also what you can do. Even though I know she is a visual learner, I also know she's in high school, getting ready to go into college and the rest of the world, and she is a natural born entrepreneur. She is going for it and knowing that we can talk about that, because I was letting her know some of the partners or vendors that you might work with in the future.

Speaker 2: 21:25

They're not going to present things to you visually and so, even though we know that visual learning is your sweet spot, you also need to start learning and applying how to learn in other ways as well, because professors and other vendors or partners, et cetera, banks they aren't necessarily going to be like oh, you're a visual learner. Let me break this out for you, right? So it's important. It's important to know their strengths so that they can also start working on their weaknesses before they go out in the world and are, you know, hit sideways with. I don't understand anything, I'm overwhelmed, I'm just going to curl up in a ball and, you know, let my, let my stress rule over me and drive, drive my life.

Speaker 1: 22:13

Yeah Well, and I wanted to back up to something you said earlier too that I so much agree with whenever you said they are a wealth of knowledge and information and ideas.

Speaker 1: 22:23

One of the primary things that we do is we teach speech and debate virtually, and our debate classes are wildly popular and we constantly hear from parents about the growth that they've seen from their kids from participating.

Speaker 1: 22:36

We don't do anything special. All we do is give them a topic and listen to their ideas on it, and it just by giving them that platform of being able to share their thoughts, their opinions on whatever this is and how to solve a problem, you can see their confidence grow on that, and it's interesting because oftentimes we'll have parents that will want to sign their kids up and they say I think this topic's too advanced for my kids, and I would say, no, it's really not going to be. You maybe never thought to talk to your kid about should we ban plastic water bottles, but if you ask them, they have thoughts and they have great opinions and we just don't give them enough credit because they're young. Just don't give them enough credit because because they're young, and so I think that that is. I loved your example of presenting your own. You know not problems, but you know like the things you're going through and asking for their input and I can absolutely see how that would build confidence, absolutely.

Speaker 2: 23:29

And even things as small. As you know all of my kids I think every kid goes through a phase where they want a gerbil or they want a rabbit, or you know they, they want the thing, and my husband and I have always been of the mindset we will completely hear you out. Right, you want to do some research, you want to create a presentation and let us know all the details and what this entails for you, what this entails for us, costs, et cetera. Go for it. It doesn't mean that the answer will be yes, but we will absolutely hear you out. And so you know those are some seeds of growth right there, where they can, to your point, like debate their side, debate their point, share their ideas, do research, dig in and then present it. And it doesn't mean a guaranteed yes or no, just like the real world does not guarantee that yes either, and so it's just really important. Those are just some simple exercises you can do. Or, like I said, my younger one I mean our whole family has been entrepreneurial in different ways, but my younger one just loves to go and do stands for this, that or the other.

Speaker 2: 24:39

You know she wanted to go to Costa Rica last year and by golly, she raised. I said that's great, but mom and dad are not paying for this. And so she raised the $4,000 to go by selling dog toys, you know. And so I were like, well, what's the business plan going to look like? What does that look like for you? How often are you going to be doing this? How are you paying for materials, you know? And she took out a loan from us and repaid and like all these things. But it was her diving in and her taking the lead on something that she is and was capable of. And she was able to go to Costa Rica for nine days and by golly, she was down there on the beaches saying I earned this, I did this and I was able to get myself here. And that was a huge thing for her.

Speaker 2: 25:22

And my oldest, you know, sent herself to London and my two middle ones sent themselves to Peru. So all of them, you know, if they can, if they are much more capable than we give them credit for and we always need to remember we're raising people, we are not raising children and than we give them credit for. And we always need to remember we're raising people, we are not raising children, and when we put them under that suppressive umbrella of you are a child, you are a child, you are a child. Then when they get along that conveyor belt of adolescence to 18, there's just a trap door that says, hey, you're 18. Good luck, bye. They get really lost out in the world, and so we need to build them to the point that they are a capable young adult.

Speaker 1: 26:02

Yeah, absolutely. Well, this has all already been very enlightening and I, before we wrap up, I wanted to ask you a big question that I don't know if we can even get into today. But one of the things you talk about is keeping lines of communication open with your daughters that doesn't trigger negative responses, arguments, the instinct to get upset. We obviously know that they're developing emotionally, their brains are developing, and sometimes they just can't help it right. But what can we do as parents to help when we're talking to our kid about something that maybe they don't really want to hear, maybe something that's going to upset them in a way that's not just going to open the door for them to shut the door on?

Speaker 2: 26:48

our face, right? Well, first of all, let them know that I am talking to you as a responsible young woman, a responsible young man. Do you think that you can handle that right now? Right, and that usually puts them in the mindset of you know what, yes, I am. It's very rare that they're going to say no, actually, I'm very irresponsible and I'm going to be very reactionary to you right now.

Speaker 2: 27:13

So set them up on that pedestal at the beginning and then make sure that you, as the adult with the fully developed brain, right, you stay calm. You have to stay calm and emulate to them what it looks like to control your emotions, even in a courageous conversation that you need to have. So stay calm, be curious, even in a courageous conversation that you need to have. So stay calm, be curious. Let them know I am here for you and I am all for you, right? Just keep letting them know I am not against you. I am never against you, right? I am here for you. I mean, just earlier today, there's some questions about one of my girl's schedules for next year and she's like I am in charge of my own schedule. I said well, I am your parent and I am in charge of making sure that you are on a path toward your best self and what is best for you. So if things need to alter, then I will alter them with you. First part of childhood you do everything for them. Second part of childhood you do things with them so that they're prepared to do it on their own, for themselves. And so, anyway, all that to say, stay calm, be curious, connect with them on whatever they're going through. I promise, whatever it is they're going through, you can connect with them on some part of that in your life.

Speaker 2: 28:41

Yes, we didn't have cell phones growing up, or I didn't, at least, you know. I think I had my first one when I was in college. But really, what the issues are? It just amplified comparison, right, identity shifting, hiding, all those things. We did those things all too. It just wasn't on the scale that it is today. So you can connect with them with that embarrassment or guilt or what have you the feeling left out, right, the FOMO? If you will, you can connect with them on a point and then really develop clarity at the end of conversations so that you're not doing this again in two days If you don't have clarity at the end of conversations, so that you're not doing this again in two days If you don't have clarity at the end of a conversation as to what did this mean to you?

Speaker 2: 29:24

What did you hear that I was saying? Because, again, that that communication barrier can sometimes be up, make sure that they heard what you were saying. Make sure you heard what they were saying and you have action, steps to go forward. But stay calm the whole time, lifting them up, letting them know I am, I am talking to him, I'm hoping to talk to a mature, you know, a young woman or young man. Can you do that right now? And if they can't, it's okay to take a break. It's okay to take a break. Revisit in an hour. Revisit in a day I wouldn't go further than a day because then things tend to get swept under a break. Revisit in an hour. Revisit in a day I wouldn't go further than a day because then things tend to get swept under a rug. But it's okay to take a break so you can revisit and come back home.

Speaker 1: 30:05

I wanted to say one of the most powerful things you just said there, too, was listen to what. Make sure you are listening to what they say, because often, as adults, what we're trying to teach them is the most important right and it just goes back to that not giving them enough credit to have valid thoughts and opinions and emotions, and so it's very easy for me personally to tell them we need to do things this way instead, without listening to what they have to say. So I think that's just so important. It's so easy to get lost in it all.

Speaker 2: 30:41

It's easy to power struggle, especially in America and especially today. It's easy to power struggle because we're so distracted. And how often a parent just wants to say do what I say because I told you to do it. And that doesn't fly, especially for today's generation. But there is a level of you know. I look at a family as a team. Parents are team captains, but we are a team. I'm here for you, I need you here for me too. We're all working together in order to create success. I can't have success without you and vice versa. Right and so. But we all work together and you think about other cultures. I work all over the world. I think about other cultures too, and what young men and women are doing at 15 is very different than what young men and women are doing at 15 in America, and I mean if you look at history that way too. So they are very, very capable. We just need to set them up in order to have that responsibility and respect and obedience. You know compassion, kindness and self-discipline to do so.

Speaker 1: 31:44

Well, nellie, this has really been a fantastic conversation for me personally. I'm sure others listening will find the same value in it. Before we wrap up, is there any one last point, one last tidbit, strategy or whatever that you want to drop to our audience before we have to close out?

Speaker 2: 31:58

I would just say one of my favorite sayings that I say in my house daily. My kids can recite this is discipline yourself so others don't have to, right, and that's where we're getting to, that's where we're trying to work them toward right. And so when they get so exhausted because they're like, oh, mom and dad are always on my case about this and I'm like I am only stepping into discipline because you are not, and when you, once you start picking up this baton of discipline, I can back off. So this is really your choice right now, right. So discipline yourself so others don't have to, and it takes you off of that consequence merry-go-round that you feel like you're always on as a parent sometimes and really puts the ball in their court and they can see that. So that's a saying we say all the time.

Speaker 1: 32:53

Well, Nellie, I know we will drop all the links for how people can connect with you in the show notes, but you have Decoding Daughters. Is that one of your programs you want to tell us?

Speaker 2: 33:04

about that. The Daughter Decoder is a master class that I have out there that you can find on my website, nelliehardencom, and then Lead the Way is all about loving and leading her to a place that she loves and leads herself before she leaves home. So that is a self-guided course that you can take, lifelong membership there. So it's great Anything that goes in there you can have, and because your kids are different at 12, than 13, than 16. And so we have parents and people that go through them multiple times at different seasons of raising their daughter. So, yep, that's all on there, and so I would love to have anyone. I drop an article every Friday and I'd love to meet you near and box.

Speaker 1: 33:51

I love it and you are on a very worthwhile and needed mission, so I am very grateful for what you do and grateful to have you here for a few minutes today to share some of these strategies. So again, if you're listening, we will have all the links in the show notes, so it's super easy for you to click over there and connect with Nellie. So again, nellie, thank you for your time.

Speaker 2: 34:11

Thank you so much for having me.