SPEAKER_01: 0:38

Welcome back to Speak Out Standout. I'm Elizabeth Green, and today's guest is Jesse Hansen. Jesse is on a mission to bring kindness to America through the kindest kid in America, which is a movement to prevent school shootings and show the power of kindness. So, Jesse, thank you for being here first and foremost. We're excited to talk today. I'm so excited to be here.

SPEAKER_00: 0:58

Thank you so much for having me.

SPEAKER_01: 1:01

So before we dive in, just so the listeners obviously know, we are going to be talking about school shootings and things associated with that. So if you are listening with your kids around, you might want to consider listening at a different time. But Jesse, this is obviously a deep conversation, but it you know, how did you get to the point where you spend your time focused on particularly school shootings, and it has evolved then for you to try to change it? Tell me a little bit about your background.

SPEAKER_00: 1:31

Yeah, for sure. I um so I've been a teacher and a speaker for 21 years, mostly speaking to youth. I've I've really only been in high schools and junior highs for 21 years. And um, I've always been really passionate about violence prevention in general. Um, I tell my story of how I got bullied in junior high, and then I became the bully, and I got I got caught in the hate cycle. Um, and so I teach the that that psychology of meanness, why people are mean, why there is hate, and how we can get stuck in those cycles. Um, so I love teaching because as soon as kids understand that, and I can say, here's the cool thing about a cycle, you can break it. You can smash that cycle, you can decide, make a really conscious decision that just because someone is hateful to you, you're not gonna put back hate back into the world. And I love teaching the psychology of hate and love and how powerful, obviously, love and kindness is. So I've always been passionate about that. But then last year, um, I lost kind of a lifelong hero. She was my first um voice teacher. I'm a singer, and she was literally my hero since I was six years old, and she was shot and killed by her husband. And um, it was so it it rocked me to my core. And I thought, you know what, I I am passionate about understanding why school shootings are such a huge problem in this world. And what, if anything, what can we do? What can a normal person, a normal citizen like any of us, do to help? And kindness is only a small piece to a very big puzzle, but it's a big piece. So I'm championing as many people as I can to become ambassadors of kindness.

SPEAKER_01: 3:09

I I love where you're going with this. Um, I feel because I do feel like, I mean, I we were just talking before we started recording, and um, you were in Utah where there was just a shooting last week, and um and you know, and and my kids are at school right now, and it's something I think about, you know. When I hear um ambulances drive past my house, my first thought is, are they going to the school? And it's this crazy world that we live in that has gotten to where it's it just please don't be my kid, please don't be my school. And I feel like that's all we can do, but there is more that we can do, right? Even though we're not in legislature, we're not making laws and things like that. There are still things that we can do. So, and and like with your you know, kindest kid in America, it boils down to being kind. Um, so tell me more about just tell me more about that.

SPEAKER_00: 3:56

Yes, anyone listening to the sound of our voices right now, you are needed. You are so important, you are so valuable in the fight for kindness. I have read almost every book ever written about school shootings and why kids get to the point where they are that desperate to be seen. It honestly comes down to them wanting to be seen. There's there's not one profile, every school shooter is different, but they are motivated by three basic things, all of them. It's either justice, revenge, or fame. And in my opinion, from my observation, from researching this, underneath all of those three things is the need to be seen. Like just like all of us. All of us want to be seen. We want to be acknowledged, we want to know that we matter. So to get to a point where you're so desperate that you're willing to murder someone else, take someone else's life because you are that desperate to have your have your existence acknowledged, that is something we can all help with. It absolutely is. So the next time you don't think it's a big deal to snap at someone that might be, you know, being rude for sure. Like there's plenty of people that are rude, but to to meet that, that, that meanness with more meanness does not help anything. It doesn't help anything. It only makes everything worse. So uh it is a call to action for all of us to be kinder. Even when people are mean to us, we have to be strong enough to step up and say, the world that I want is peaceful and kind. So that's the energy I have to put out in order to fight for the world that we want. So it is it is that important because I've read so many books and they these shooters write in their journals of times that the the tiniest little slights, they call them grievance collectors. They collect all the little grievances throughout their entire lives. So all of us have a part to play. If we want a kinder, more peaceful world, it's gonna take us being more kind and more peaceful, even when people are super obnoxious and rude and disrespectful. It's it's it's a strength to step up and be kind in the face of that, that meanness. So that's my call to action for absolutely everybody.

unknown: 5:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 5:59

And it I will say it's very difficult when somebody is being rude to you to not be rude back. And we live in this world where people are rude in person, but they are also exceptionally mean on social media. And it it can eat at us, you know. But um, so how do we help our kids not only um avoid becoming, well, we aren't born mean, right? I feel like we are born empathetic creatures, right? And we it is learned, right? Hate and and meanness is learned. And I saw um something the other day that a quote that stuck with me, and it said, it's okay to be mad, it's never okay to be mean. And I thought, what a great little snippet for, especially parents of younger kids, whenever maybe they're fighting with their sibling or something like that. A great way to put that in perspective. But what do we do with our um, you know, that's a little too basic for like my 16-year-old, you know? And maybe he's going through um, you know, an issue with a friend or he's upset with me because uh he's having to do the dishes, you know. Like, what do we do as parents? How can we create, make sure that we're we're not um funneling our kids into a site, to that cycle that so many people are in right now?

SPEAKER_00: 7:10

Yes, I love that question. I have a very powerful psychology tool that every parent can teach their children. Um, and you have to frame it in the right way, or else it's it's not as effective because kids, kids need it to be delivered in a in a certain way. So frame it as a psychology tool that is going to outsmart a hater. It's gonna, it's gonna confuse them, it's going to almost overpower the meanness. Um, because if we say kill them with kindness, I promise you, teenagers especially are gonna tune right out. So that 16-year-old is gonna be like, yeah, yeah, yeah, mom, stop talking. So if you frame it as, no, this is like an actual psychology tool that is gonna outsmart a hater, I think they will listen better. If you lead with science and psychology, kids are a little more open. But when you are incredibly sincerely kind to someone who is actively being mean to you, even if it's online or straight to your face, if you are being actively kind to someone who's being actively mean, it creates very real cognitive dissonance. It's confusing, they don't like it, they want you to get mad, they want you to get sad, they want you to play into this little game. And I know that because I was a bully. I wanted people to fight me, I wanted them to like, I wanted the emotion, the reaction. So when when people are actively kind, so if someone is right to your face saying, You're so stupid, you're so ugly, and you say, Oh my gosh, it sounds like you are really struggling. It sounds like you're feeling kind of sad. I am so sorry. And you cannot say it sassy, it has to be sincere. You say, I'm so sorry that you're struggling right now. If you if you need a friend, I'm actually a really good friend, I'd be happy to listen if you need someone to talk to. Like something like that, and you say it kindly and sincerely, I promise you the look on their face, it's confusing, it's it's discombobulating, and it creates cognitive dissonance. So it and if you frame it the right way as a parent and you say, just try it, just try it, like just see how it goes. Um, and for them to feel like it's an empowering thing, that they're gonna be stronger. They're not playing into this little game that some hater wants, they're gonna feel stronger, like they're overpowering this hate that's being put into the world. Um, I've used this tool hundreds of times all over the country with so many, mostly teenagers, and they love it because it's an empowering feeling. It's not a weakness. If we say kill them with kindness, that feels weak. If we say outsmart them and confuse them with kindness, they feel empowered.

SPEAKER_01: 9:34

And I love what you said about being sincere, like the whole like I'm in the south and oh bless your heart is is a common like response, and it is not sincere.

SPEAKER_00: 9:43

That's not what we're talking about. You can't be condescending, you can't like it has to be honest. And and if it is, you feel good about who you are as a person. I'm living my value. I value being kind. And if I'm looking at someone who's being actively mean to me and I'm saying, hey, if you need something, I I really would be willing to listen. Like I'm an awesome friend. I'm so sorry you're struggling. Like that, that is living according to my values. I feel proud of myself. I walk away from that feeling strong. And teenagers like that. They like that feeling. So if we can find ways to empower them with psychology and use kindness at the same time, that's that's where the win happens.

unknown: 10:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 10:20

And so you truly think that if the world was just more kind, we would not have all the issues such we're having right now, particularly with gun violence and school shootings.

SPEAKER_00: 10:31

It there are so many factors, so many, so many factors. Um, obviously guns, obviously, gun laws, um, mental health. Um, there, you know, plenty of shooters could absolutely be diagnosed as psychopaths. So there is very real mental illness. There's so many factors to shootings. I just know that kindness is a huge piece to a very, very large puzzle because a lot of shooters in their journals talk about the times that they've been hurt. They talk about it. Like Dylan Klebold from Columbine talked about a moment from preschool. He was a grievance collector. He he remembered every little slight and then they all added up together. He couldn't move on, he couldn't let go. He held on to all that and they compounded. So we just know from the research that kindness is a huge piece to the puzzle.

SPEAKER_01: 11:21

Yeah. So I'm a mom of boys, and um, but I was a teen girl, and um, I know in fact, I was just recording a podcast yesterday, and the gentleman was saying he watched the movie Mean Girls, and he was like, Are girls really like that? And every woman he asked were like, Yeah, yeah, yeah, they are, right? So, but as a mom of boys, I haven't had to deal with that kind of level of drama as a mom. Um, the moms that are dealing though with that level of drama, how do we talk to our kids to say, even the smallest slights, like you were talking about, these small little grievances can impact somebody and and ultimately become a major thing, how do we talk to them about that without like scaring them too?

SPEAKER_00: 12:02

Yeah. Oh, that's such a good question. So I I really do think understanding the the you know, the social structure of humans, especially as teenagers, and especially of teenage girls. If you do read the book Um Queen Bees and Wannabes by Rosalind Wiseman, who that's the book that the movie was based on, the movie Mean Girls. It is so good. And the the psychology and the social structure is actually quite brilliant. Teenage girls are very strategic in our socialization, and it's it's something to learn from. And I honestly think it it empowers kids to understand it. So when we uh I call mean girl behavior, the boys certainly do it too, but it we call it mean girl behavior. It's using relationships as weapons. So it's gossip, rumors, isolation, manipulation, exclusion. Have you ever not been invited to the party? And then they make sure you know you weren't invited. That's a weapon that hurts so bad. And you're using a relationship instead of a word, like saying you're so stupid, you're so ugly, that's a that's a weapon, that's a verbal weapon. But not inviting someone to the party or wanting someone to feel alone, that's a relational weapon. And so explaining that to our kids, I honestly think they understand it because they see it every day. They see that kind of those kind of interactions every day. Um, I think it can be very, very empowering to talk very openly about that with our children and say, when you see it, you say, Oh, that's exclusion, that's isolation, that's manipulation. I see it, I understand it. And giving it a name, identifying that as a behavior helps us not take it personally because we're like, oh, okay, that person is trying to manipulate me. That's their behavior. That's not on me. That's not a moral failing. I'm not worthless. It helps us separate it. It's very empowering for kids to put behavior where it belongs on someone else's choices. And then we don't take it as personally.

SPEAKER_01: 13:54

Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Well, tell me, you mentioned earlier that you were in the cycle, you became a bully. How did you how did how did you break that cycle? Like, when did you decide like, wait a minute, this is not like the way I should be treating people? Because a lot of teenagers don't ever make that jump until like way later in life, you know, when they realize the impacts of their actions. So tell me about that.

SPEAKER_00: 14:15

Yeah, I'm so glad you asked. That's where I think my story gets kind of awesome. So it was my principal, my junior high school principal completely changed my life. I believe he saved my life through kindness. He suspended me from school four times for bullying. That's how bad I was. I was a mess. My parents were getting a divorce. I had an eating disorder, I had major body dysmorphia. Like I was just a mess. I was angry, I was sad, I was all the things. Um, and that's why I was acting out for sure. Not that it excuses it, but that's that's where I was in my head. And so he suspended me four times, and then I only came back to school more angry. Suspension does nothing to teach children how to be better. We kicking kids out is nothing. I have so many issues with suspension. Anyway, the fifth time he was supposed to suspend me again, he brought me into his office, he slammed the door, he said, Jesse, sit down. I'm not putting up with your behavior anymore. You are out of control. And then he like crouched down, softened completely, looked me right in the eye. I was 13 years old, and he said, I see you. I see that you are struggling. I want to help you. We are not leaving this office until you tell me how I can help you. I'm here for you. It was amazing. He had the strength to be to hold boundaries because we must, must have boundaries with people that are acting out. It is always okay to have boundaries. It's always okay to stand up for what's right and to say we're we don't need to put up with this hateful behavior. But then he he reached out to me and and met me on a heart level. And and I told him everything. I balled my eyes out. I finally opened up to someone. I was brave enough to allow him to hold space for me. I hadn't told anyone what was going on. I was like, my best friend betrayed me, she was bullying me, and and then I became the bully, and that's not who I want to be. I actually want to be an awesome kid. Um, and I was just crying my eyes out to my junior high school principal. And he was like, Oh my gosh, I'm so glad you told me. We can work with this. I'm on your team, we're gonna figure this out. And from then on, he was my biggest advocate and he fought for me and he invested in me. And every single day he would he would find me and say, How are you? Do you need anything? He had candy in his office and he'd always like make sure I had a piece of candy. Like he was just amazing. I'm still in touch with my junior high principal to this day. He's incredible. He saved my life. So I care about this so much because adults, especially adults, we know from a really powerful Harvard study that that in the one thing that makes the biggest difference in a child's life of whether they will be successful or not, is one caring adult. Just one. And it doesn't necessarily have to be a parent. One caring adult. It's a beautiful Harvard study. I'll send you the link. It's amazing. So if every adult on this planet, if all of us could come together and yes, kids and teenagers are annoying and frustrating and and aggravating all the things for sure. But if we can kind of push past that and and just try to see them and honor them and help them in any way that we can while having our own boundaries, I know that would move the needle on all of these young. It's usually, not always, but it's usually a young male who ends up doing these shootings. We need to invest in our kids. That's the bottom line. We need to invest in them, fight for them, be patient with them, and and honor them. We have to. So that's why I developed Kindest Kid in America because I want to celebrate children being awesome.

SPEAKER_01: 17:41

I love it. That's incredible. Um, and and you're talking about just one person can make such a difference. I will say my parents are amazing, and um, I I didn't have um, but I was very shy as a kid. And I had one teacher who I had to do a speech in her class, hated it, I was scared to death. She made me feel like a million bucks afterwards. I went on to become a news anchor. And I say, like my parents were amazing and supported me all the way, but having somebody that that didn't have mom goggles on, as my kids would say, to see the good in me and see the potential in me made such a huge difference. So I'm really glad you brought that up because obviously we want the best for our children, and that's our core focus. But I know a lot of us are teachers or work with kids in other ways, and our friends, our kids have friends that we could potentially be that person for. So tell me more about Kindness Kid in America. What is it? How do we do it?

SPEAKER_00: 18:35

All the things. Yeah, it's so much fun. So we go all over the country and we look for kind kids, and then we write a custom children's book about them and about their real acts of kindness. So it's a very honest, true story. We put the real kid on the back. This was our first winner from Indiana. His name's Cairo, he's so cute. And then we surprise them with their book at a school-wide assembly. 500 kids usually. And so we like have this fun little drum roll. We're like, you guys, oh my gosh, a kid in this room is the kindest kid in America. And then we have like have him do a drum roll. The kid comes up, I read the book to all the students because we want him to feel like a rock star, but we want all the other kids to see him being celebrated for kindness. We even give them a gold medal with their name on it, and we just try to make it so, so special. And the idea is like we even invite the mayor, we invite the news, we try to just go like crazy, making it cool, making it fun, making it exciting. Because what we know from the research is that violence is contagious. Like a lot of the school shooters draw upon the example of other shooters, which is so horrific, but we know that. So we also know kindness can be even more contagious. So we have to figure out ways to make kindness exciting, kindness fun, kindness glamorous. We want kids to feel so special because that's the stuff all of us look for. We want to be seen. All of us want to be seen. So if this is a way we can make sure our children feel seen and honored. And this is kindness is not an athletic ability. Kindness is not a an IQ score. It's something everyone can be good at. Everyone can be talented at being kind. So it's very empowering. And as soon as a kid realizes that, I I honestly believe every kid wants to be kind. I really believe that. They want it. Sometimes something just gets in their way. I wanted to be kind, but I was in so much pain. The pain was in my way. It took my principal figuring out how to how to help my pain to let me be who I wanted to be. I wanted to be a kind kid. So I know for sure when we can make kindness exciting and fun and glamorous and beautiful, other kids are like, ooh, I want that. That's fun. Yes.

SPEAKER_01: 20:50

Yeah. I love it. And I because I was just thinking, you know, most of the time the kids that get attention are because they're troublemakers, you know, and they're getting the the wrong kind of attention, but they're still getting attention from the adults or the the you know, the athletes or the superstars um in um math or things like that. So um just bringing it down and and showing this is like this is so valuable too. I always tell my kids, be anything you want, just be kind. Exactly. You know, like we said, it is, but as adults, I think so much of this comes down to us. And I know that like um people say things on social media that they would never say to somebody's face. But if we are doing that, we even if our kids are not reading our social media, they're still like aware of the way that we're behaving around other people. And I do think that people behave on social media the way that they do, it does start leaking out into the way that they behave around, you know, real world people. And so honoring our kids for being innately kind, because I believe they are, they learn different from the people around them. Yeah. Um exactly. So it is so how does like so how does this work? How does somebody get honored to be named the kindest kid in America?

SPEAKER_00: 22:03

Yeah. Anyone anywhere can nominate a kid. Um, you can go to our website, um, just like we have like a nomination form that you can fill out, or you can make a video of yourself if you feel comfortable with video and social media, because we're just trying to create a social movement. So we just want as much kindness as possible. So we've had quite a few people make a video and then they say, I want to nominate, you know, my neighbor for this reason for the kindest kid in America Award. And then they put it on their socials and just tag us so that that way we're putting a lot more kindness into the world. So you can do it either way. You can go to our website, kindestkidinamerica.com, or just make your own video and tag us.

SPEAKER_01: 22:38

I love how you've taken, because you you study school shootings, and I know that that can be a very deep and heavy thing to study. And it you have taken it and flipped it into um an amazing, you know. I mean, obviously school shootings are horrible, but you are have taken what you've learned and have flipped it into something amazing and and world-changing. Um that's that's really to be admired.

SPEAKER_00: 22:59

Thank you. I I I honestly think if there's even one kid, just one kid that might be sitting in that audience and he feels like a bad kid. I don't know if you've ever felt that. Like I truly felt like something was wrong with me. Like I was just a bad human. I I felt like I there was just I was broken. And so I identified as that. I thought, I'm a bully, I'm a brat, I'm a bad kid. Like that was my identity. And it took my principal seeing through that mask to help me shift that identity. And now I was able to like identify as, okay, I don't want to be that anymore. I'm stepping into a new role. It's almost like theater. That's why I think theater is such a great therapeutic tool for children because it helps them play around with their identity a little bit. You can change your identity at any moment. Any moment you can decide to be a kind kid. So I'm hoping that if there's a kid sitting in that audience and he sees a little boy like Cairo being honored, he's like, oh my gosh, I could do that. I could be kind. I want to be seen as the kind kid, and he can step into that identity. That's what we want. So as much as we can celebrate awesome kids, it will, it will influence other kids. So kindness is so contagious. Kindness is so powerful.

unknown: 24:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 24:11

And like we were talking about at the very beginning, it is something that we can all do. Um, and it especially at a time when we feel like, what is happening in this world? What can I do? I'm just one small voice. I can't make a difference. How can I stop? Or, you know, for how could I um be a part of the solution? And it really is, you know, like you said, not that simple, but it is that simple when it comes to us individually, you know?

SPEAKER_00: 24:34

It is. That's why I said everyone is valuable, everyone is needed. It is a huge call to action. We need everyone, we need all hands on deck. I I do believe we have a responsibility to make this world better. I I believe that with all my heart. If I know there's just a lot of people that are like, oh, I just want to exist and I'm just here to be happy, that's fine. But honestly, our that would be ideal if our world was fine. Our world is not fine. There's so much work to do. We I believe we have a responsibility and an obligation to do our part. And if it's as simple as being kind when you want to tell someone off at the grocery store who's being a jerk, like, come on, we can do it. We can do that. That's it is hard, but it's not impossible. So I think we need all hands on deck. Everyone needs to be kinder.

SPEAKER_01: 25:21

Yeah, I love it. Well, Jesse, thank you so much for everything you're doing and for being here to share this with us. If you're listening or watching, we'll have the links to everything below. So if you're thinking, oh, I know the perfect kid for this, um, you can um look into the details of how to nominate someone. And um, and you gave us some great tips about ways to, I love that the tip of um talking to our kids about turning things around and just being genuinely kind in the face of meanness. Um, really great tips. And if you're interested in um learning more about what Jesse has to offer, her links, all the things will be below so you can check all that out. So again, Jesse, thanks for all you're doing. It really matters. Thank you so much, Elizabeth.

SPEAKER_00: 25:57

I really appreciate your time.

SPEAKER_01: 25:59

Thanks for listening.