SPEAKER_02: 1:13

Welcome back to Speak Out Standout. I'm Elizabeth Green, and today's guest is Ben Summers. Ben is the founder of recess.gg, the fastest growing platform for homeschoolers to build cool shit and make friends along the way, which I absolutely laughed when I saw that tagline and I love it. It resonates. Ben, we're glad to have you here.

SPEAKER_00: 1:35

Hey, thanks. Yeah, it's fun to be here.

SPEAKER_02: 1:37

So, first of all, uh how did you get to where this is your path in life of making homeschooling uh more accessible, um, adding benefits to it, to all of that? Were you homeschooled yourself? Where what how'd you get done here?

SPEAKER_00: 1:49

Yeah, yeah, it's a good question. No, I went to public school. Um, I grew up in a small town. I was truant from grade six to eight, though, actually. Uh but yeah, I went to public school. I never liked it growing up. I read a ton, I ended up going to a good university, studying like, you know, STEM-y subjects. I said, you know, math and machine learning. And um yeah, I kind of got out of school and uh and thought that that could have been way better and was always interested in working on it.

unknown: 2:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 2:20

And I did something after college that was different and worked pretty well, and started a company with my brother, uh, and that that did well. And I think that taught me, oh, you can start companies and recruit people and be interested in an idea and go make it into a real product that helps people or does something. And so that was a big moment. And then I joined after that, I decided, okay, I really want to work on education. That's the problem I want to spend 40 years on. I think there's room to make a big difference. And uh, so I want to go learn from someone really smart. And and I looked at two different people. One was this guy named Mitch Reznick, who is at MIT, uh, and he runs the kindergarten lab there. He invented this thing called Scratch and a bunch of other great products. I was excited about him because his mentor was like my hero. Uh, he wrote this book called Mindstorms. And the other guy was a guy named Josh Don, um, who had led a school at SpaceX. So uh Elon had tapped him to build a school at SpaceX around this idea of first principles thinking and a problem-focused education instead of a tool-focused education, which basically means kids do things they're excited about or that are hard, and then you teach them all the skills they need in order to achieve it. Instead of our most of the school systems work where you teach them a bunch of skills in case they need them.

SPEAKER_02: 3:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 3:38

And so this was uh and there's that phrase just in time learning, just in case learning. So this whole school was built around just in time learning. Um that once the kid works on something, you teach them what they need just in time, instead of teaching it all to them just in case. And uh I thought that was really cool and really interesting. And so I I started emailing him all the time and uh and then helped him and and uh his co-founder, Chrisman, launch a company called Synthesis, um, which were these strategic team games for kids and later this math tutor, all based on the same ideas that Josh had built his school with. And so I spent three years uh building with them. That company grew really fast, it was really fun, and a huge I met tons of homeschoolers through that. It was like their homeschoolers were the best users of that product. They had the best results, they used it the most often, they signed up for it more than anyone else. And yeah, I just met all these different parents who were really thoughtful, really smart, cared a lot about their kids, were caring about their kids, yes, becoming intelligent and capable and all those things, and they put in time and effort into that, but they also didn't want to rob them of a childhood and weren't sacrificing fun and excitement for this learning. They were all figuring out how to do that in their homes in a way that I think was was interesting and and meaningful to the kid and the parent. And I thought that was just amazing. I was I was just really floored by it, and it's it was so different than what I'd seen. I'd started touring schools, going to visit all the best schools kind of around the country. The ones in New York and the ones in California, and there's some great ones in Texas, and so I was going around visiting these, and none of them really seemed that interesting. But then I would talk to these parents and find out what their 10-year-old was doing or what they were doing, and it was and it blow me away. And so um I wanted to work with those parents and those kids. I thought that was really cool. And uh, and so yeah, and then I started it happened very naturally. There were some kids from Synthesis that I was teaching on the side. Synthesis fired 500 teachers in a 72-hour window. Um and so all those kids still wanted to get, still wanted teacher-led classes. Um and I started helping figure that out and building stuff for those families. And then very slowly, just from working with kids and parents, it evolved into now a whole platform. Originally it was just me teaching five kids math on top of their favorite video game. Uh, and then one word person started teaching math on top of their favorite video game, and then two years later, there's, you know, thousands of kids have joined us, and there's kids building stuff all the time, and they're hanging out and they're chatting to each other, and they can call each other. And uh, and yeah, that's how we got started. Fell in love with homeschooling and the way it works, started selling them products and trying to be useful to them, and then just becoming more useful over time.

SPEAKER_02: 6:35

Yeah. It's crazy how things uh just just you know, we can't anticipate the way things will go. It's the exact same with my business. I have always said I don't have the patience to be a teacher, and lo and behold, I have a whole education company. Um, but it's what you said really resonated with me. I'm also a public school kid. My husband's a public school teacher. My kids go to public school. And my first real experience with homeschoolers was around 2020 when we started teaching, you know, just some just a handful of classes, right? And the um I always tell people it's mind-blowing to me because these kids show up excited to learn. And they are sad when class is over. And that is not at all the experience my kids have in school. And now, like I look back and think, goodness, if I could start all over, I would do things differently with my kids, but you know, they're they're in middle school and high school now. But yeah, I I it makes me sad that their desire to learn. I think we all have that innate desire, you know, when we're little, get squashed along the way with like what you said of teaching them things just in case. And one more like side note to this, because you were making me think all these things. I'm helping my son memorize the periodic table. Fun. Why? Why does a 12-year-old need to memorize the periodic table? Well, I mean I don't think they do, right? I mean, like, I think they need to understand like how it why it matters, you know, like why these things matter around in this world around us, but not like the atomic number of boron, you know, which is what I think our school is so focused on so many times when it's we gotta memorize these facts so that we can get the test scores, you know?

SPEAKER_00: 8:07

And there's no it's not the learn, it's not contextualized. So you can't. Right, exactly. Right. It's not um yeah, the peer because the PR table is epic and awesome if you start doing chemistry things.

SPEAKER_02: 8:21

Right.

SPEAKER_00: 8:22

You'll like lean on it all the time and be very excited that you know how it works. Um, and so I'm really obsessed with how to use video games to contextualize learning. This is really my personal, personal passion. I we try and solve lots of problems for homeschoolers, but on an individual level, I'm I'm like obsessed with computers as simulation machines. So I don't know if your kid cares about it or if it's just the test, but there's this game called Space Chem that he could try from a uh a developer called Zactronix. And uh it will generate it'll generate demand for learning the periodic table. It's uh I won't won't describe too much about it, but it's a chemistry game. And it's like entertaining and fun and sold a lot of copies. And uh and you'll yeah, it'll be it'll be nice to know, you know, especially the columns.

unknown: 9:09

Right.

SPEAKER_00: 9:10

Which ones in this column, which ones in that column, which ones in this column.

SPEAKER_02: 9:13

But without that, without understanding why it's important, or like you said, conceptualizing it or doing anything hands-on with it, it's just information that's gonna stick there for the test and be gone. And so I think that's like that is what you guys are doing so differently, right? And that's what you're helping homeschooling families do.

SPEAKER_00: 9:31

Yeah, and it's a lot easier with homeschoolers. We don't have um we don't have standards. They don't have standards. Yeah. There's not uh like a a set of things that you have to be able to answer on a specific test at the end of the year. A lot of them will lean on math and reading comprehension tests and they do really well. But um yeah, it's nice to be nothing almost nothing is coerced in homeschool. Depends on your homeschool and the way that you do it. But um the kids show up and want to learn because if they don't, they'd switch classes.

unknown: 10:07

Right.

SPEAKER_00: 10:08

That's a that is such a small design change from a user perspective. Yeah. Of if I don't like this c class, I can switch. Yeah. Not true in the school system. Such a small design change. The consequence of it is every class is filled with kids who want to be there. And if you've walked into a classroom where all the kids are excited to be there and only three out of 20 are excited to be there, the energy in the room is totally different. Yes. And if you're the 19th kid walking into that classroom, your experience changes depending on how everyone else is feeling. Oh, for sure. And so yeah, um, um, I I think it's amazing. We try and lean hard into letting the kids pick too and letting them choose, but it's uh yeah, it's pretty different. It's pretty cool.

SPEAKER_02: 10:53

Yeah, I've been absolutely amazed with what I have seen happening in the homeschool world. And it I think it has changed so much in the past. I mean, obviously just in the past five years, it's changed so much. I think there are so many more homeschoolers now than there were pre-COVID. But then we want to say like 15 years ago, 20 years ago, when homeschooling was literally mom sitting down with a book on the table and teaching you. So, what do you say to the parent who's listening right now who's, you know, I like I'm kind of interested in this, but I don't know that I'm qualified to teach my kids. Like, right, I I I can't teach math, right? Like, I that's me. I can't teach math. How could I homeschool my kids if I if I don't understand this subject and can teach it to them? What do you say to them?

SPEAKER_00: 11:31

I have a lot of different answers to that. Um that are happy and optimistic, and some that are pessimistic. Um well let's hear. I'll start with the happy and optimistic ones. Yeah. I think one, there's um what you're really trying to set your kid uh what's the purpose of education, I think, is like a big and interesting question. And personally, I don't think it's to make sure that they uh have memorized their true identities and understand how to drive those. I think that can be an interesting component or it's a useful skill or whatever. The purpose is that when they're done with their education, they can go out into the world and be an independent human that can provide value to their fellow citizens and lead a life that's happy and wake up excited in the morning and have a sense of purpose. I think that's the point. And at some point as an adult, you will need to learn things that you don't know how to do and you won't have a teacher for it. So there's a question of when that trade handoff is supposed to happen to now, okay, you're on your own. Should it happen at the end of college at 22, or should it happen at 18, or should it happen at 15 or 12 or 10? I think it depends on subject. But one answer is it's I think there's a humans are really good at learning things even without teachers. We learn how to walk without teachers, we know how to talk without teachers. There's tons of uh tons of things you can learn and and pick up. And I'm sure you've seen your kids get really good at a video game or pick up some random hobby and become proficient in that hobby without kind of any instruction. Yeah. So it's so some one answer is it's really about inspiring excitement in them and showing interest in it. Where I do think so that's that's one really fast answer is that I I actually don't I don't think it's necessary to know a subject to be a useful guide or mentor to someone else who wants to pick up that skill. And it's a it's a great skill for the kid to learn to how acquire new knowledge on their own. And this follow-up to that is the resources today are really, really good. So there are full, yes, there are full curriculums that work, and there's also tons of micro apps and small things that you can choose from that that take care of that, that that have adaptive learning systems and spaced repetition systems and scaffolded knowledge frameworks and all this kind of technical stuff, so so that if your kids are working with it, they can get to a really high level.

unknown: 14:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 14:04

So that's and some examples. This one example is Math Academy, is a great piece of software for learning math. Um, and if you s if your kid spends, you know, 30 minutes a day working on Math Academy with no external help, no videos, no tutoring, they'll move two grade levels a year in math. So and they'll test in the top half a percent. And all you gotta do is build the help them build the daily habit of focusing for 30 minutes on it. And if they develop that habit, they'll cruise. And so those are my first two answers. It's great for I think kids to learn that they can learn something without a teacher. And so I I think that's actually a benefit, not a drawback. And the second is you can lean on these great materials which help teach the specific knowledge you might care about your kid learning.

SPEAKER_02: 14:46

We don't have to be an expert in it anymore.

SPEAKER_00: 14:48

You don't have to be an expert in it. And then and then, and you can you can always hire out help, right? And get tutors and teachers, and you're kidding me, a great musician, you can even if you don't play music. But um there's one caveat I'll add to this as I've started teaching a lot of math classes, which is that energy is really infectious, and your kids pick up on your energy really well. And maybe not after they're 13, puberty hits and they go totally nuts or whatever, but before that, they they're they're they're really reacting to what their parents how they feel, how they're how how what their reactions are. There are all those famous videos of babies like looking at the mom's faces. Have you seen these? Yes. Oh, they're so good. But anyways, right, kids turn to us to look for our reactions and our way of looking at the world as a way to figure out what they should be worried about, what they should focus on. And I think a lot of people struggled with math in school and it was taught poorly in school, and so they have math anxiety.

unknown: 15:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 15:56

Um, and I think that is a thing that you wanna, if you're if you if you have a lot of anxiety about a subject, you want to try hard not to transfer that. Yeah, that's true. To your kid. And so, and what you really want from a teacher, from an adult, is to transfer the enthusiasm and love of the subject and interest in the subject to the kid so they can keep that up and model that. And so that's my one caveat is if a subject makes you anxious and you feel dumb when your kid comes and asks you a seventh grade math question that you can't answer, um just be so proud of them for working on it. And yeah, don't be upset that you can't figure it out because I think they'll pick up on it. That's my no, that's that is absolutely true.

SPEAKER_02: 16:38

And I think I have seen that in my own son because um, I mean, he does not like math and um he struggles with it, which is part of it, but also I think he has picked up on my negativity around it whenever I'm trying to help him. You know, you think about like when little kids fall down and they always say, Don't react. Because if you go, Are you okay? Then they're gonna cry, right? Well, if you're just like you just keep going on, they go on too. So I absolutely agree, and I'm glad you brought that up because I think that is really important for all of us to remember in life in general, not just educational subjects, but they definitely, you know, they pay attention to what we're doing and and and follow the suit.

SPEAKER_00: 17:12

It's it's crazy. That's been the I'll add my last little cynical part at the end, which is um it's not working at the schools. Which is uh a cynical take, but you know, um half of 12th graders read at a fourth grade level. Oh wow. The number of people who pass seventh grade math by the end of high school is like under a third. It is uh the if you are at a top private school that caught charges 50 grand a year and you're a straight A student, you're on average one and a half years behind common core standards. Wow. So my follow up to that is um the bar is low. You're worried about it. You're not doing that good of a job there. Like imagine if you went to a restaurant and they served you something that was disgusting, and you're like, well, I don't know how to cook, but I could I can beat that.

SPEAKER_02: 18:10

Right. That's yeah, no, that's a great point. Great point. Well, and one of the things I know that you all are really heavy on on recess is um letting learners choose what they want to learn. But also I know their socialization, like, is it that's a big aspect too, because you know, there's still that like thought out there. I think people are starting to understand that homeschool kids are socialized, but I think there's still a lot of pushback to that saying, well, if you homeschool them, how are they going to learn how to socialize? You know? So what are you all doing at recess that overcomes that problem for people?

SPEAKER_00: 18:43

Definitely a big trigger word, socialization for homeschoolers, and rightfully so. Yeah. Um yeah, my first answer is I think there's you should break down socialization into its component parts. Um and I think people are talking about a lot of different things when they're talking about socialization. And so one of them, I don't like the word because like I socialize my dog. You know? Yeah, I'm not sure my dog can like exist around other people. That's not I don't socialize a kid. Uh there's so so I I think that even that word, that framing is kind of like a bad framing for parents. But um break it down. So one thing is you understand social norms, social mores, social taboos, and uh can pick up on the other person's emotions, can respond to them. You can engage with them directly and connect with them. Ability to connect with and understand other people. I think that is one topic. And I think those are two actually pretty big difference. One is being able to connect with individuals, and one is being able to uh is complying with societal norms, mores, and taboos. Gotcha. So what is socially acceptable, what is not socially acceptable. I think homeschoolers actually are really, really good at engaging with other humans, like better than kids who go to school. Um, I think something about the the age grouping I've run into just that one bracket, having them all kind of sit in rows and face the front of the class, and they're like, there's this joke that um people say school is good for socializing, but if you socialize at school, you get in trouble. That's right. So it's it's not designed to be a good environment for that. It's actually specifically designed to discourage socialization in in that form. And so, anyway, so uh from engaging with people perspective, you get actually not a lot of practice at school, and you get practice in very confined scenarios where there's really, really intense focus on local status hierarchies. Kids are there's there's bullies and there's this and there's jocks, and there's kids who are good at this, and you want to make it onto this team, and and everyone's kind of it can be competitive and difficult, which I think why being like a teenager or a tween is hard. Um, and so I so I think from a learning to engage with other people, I actually don't think school is that good at it. I think spending time with adults who are good at this and and getting to interact with them all the time is actually kind of a better way. So one is like how well you engage with other people and connect them. The second is the social norms and taboos and mores, and and um no question they're worse at that. That is that is for sure true. They they'll wear things that kids who go to public school wouldn't wear. They'll, you know, be interested in TV shows that you would get made fun of for at school. This that that set of stuff will definitely be true because they're not getting that kind of like pressure. And I think some parents will say that's amazing. My kid can develop independence and their own taste, and they're they're not maybe being constrained by kind of all these things that society is trying to push on us. Other parents will say that'll make it harder for them to fit in at college one day, and so I'm not happy about that. But so I think you split it into like ability to connect with individuals and ability to uh live within society's expectations of us. And they're I think they're great at engaging with people, they're a little worse at living within society's expectations. They don't know the memes, they don't know the shows, they don't catch the references, they wear different clothes, all that kind of stuff. And then I would say there's a third category, which is having a vibrant social life, which is distinct from the other two. You could be pretty autistic and have a really hard time picking up on other people other people's emotions and wear totally weird clothes and have a group of seven homies that you hang with out with all the time and do land parties and are playing games with and having a great time.

SPEAKER_01: 22:32

Right?

SPEAKER_00: 22:32

So you can have great social connection and community and cohesion without those other two. You can have any mix of these three. Yeah. And um, and yeah, I think home and from my experience, the they're great at engaging, they're a little worse at the societal expectations, and the their level of how how good they're at having friends, you know, not how good they are at friends, how strong of a friend group they have is uh is is a big variance for homeschoolers. Some of them have amazing friends and they are doing stuff all the time, and they spend five times more time together than the kids in public school, and they're a part of these big communities and all that kind of stuff. And other kids live in the middle of nowhere, and it's really hard for them if they don't go to school to get to get social outs. And so, anyways, they're so as socialization. I think it's nice to break it into these three buckets, and I would say re-really help with um mainly the third part, that that third one, which is like finding a group of people that you like hanging out with all the time and and doing stuff with. And we're specifically focused on the kind of the intellectual pursuits that you like to go down. So we think like join your sports team, join ballet, join you know, play in a local orchestra, all that kind of stuff, theater, whatever. That's always fun. We're interested if your kid likes building computers, how can they meet seven other kids who like building computers and they can work on some big weird project on the internet together? Um or they love anime and they want to make their own manga manga. Uh and uh and yeah, and so we focus on that. That's that's a very long answer to your question of socialization.

SPEAKER_02: 24:14

Uh no, that was great, and I love the way you broke it down, and I agree with with everything you've said, and I think that is one of the coolest things that has come out of COVID is people realizing that you if you can connect with people from all around the world. You you can find people who have your similar interests, even if you live in the middle of nowhere, and you can't go knock on somebody's door and hang out with your you know friends down the street. And even if you can doesn't necessarily mean that you're gonna have the same interests. And so I think that's one of the things that really I was really impressed with with recess of giving kids that opportunity to connect, to socialize, and make friends, explore their interests and all of that. And it's just really cool that we can do that. But I know a lot of parents are still hesitant about letting their kids have access to other people online, right? Which we obviously have to be very careful about. Yeah. But there are awesome programs like recess that are safe and um supervised and all of that.

SPEAKER_00: 25:13

You know, I'm not gonna let my seven-year-old walk around Times Square. I will let them walk around my 6,000-person town in Glencoe, Illinois. And it's like, what's the internet equivalent to that? It's like you're you're right now your options are like drop your kid off on Roblox, which is like dropping off on Times Square. And like it might be fine, but it might not.

SPEAKER_02: 25:34

Well, so before we run out of time, let's talk a little bit more about recess and some of the things that kids can learn on there. Because again, I think it's so cool how you all give kids an opportunity to really deep dive on things that they are interested in learning about. And, you know, in like in my kids' school, they get to choose a couple of electives. They can choose band or choir, you know? I mean, like it's very limited what they can actually learn. And even they don't even offer uh real speech and debate at my kids' schools, which is kind of crazy. Yeah. So um, but you all offer all kinds of things, and they get to really kind of pick what they're most interested in and go deep on it if they choose to, or try a little bit of everything. So, what are some of the things that kids can learn on recess that maybe is not offered at a regular school?

SPEAKER_00: 26:19

We have one uh rule, which is we only teach things that can be better taught online. And I'll so um there's lots of great classes. We are really focused and obsessed with computers, and I think that the modern day equivalent of Hogwarts is like a like Harry gets his wand, and when he first gets the wand, he can't do anything with it. Like he accidentally, you know, knocks when he has a bad wand, he knocks all the stuff off, but even still he doesn't know any spells. He's gonna learn the movements and the spells to be able to kind of control it and and get use out of this very powerful object that's been handed to him. And um I think that uh the computers are like the modern-day equivalent of wands, and that if you learn how to really wield them, uh you can create magic, you can create hundred billion dollar companies out of thin air, you can solve disease by simulating proteins and all these things, you can re-engineer and bring back the woolly mammoths, you can do uh you can model physics and understand what you know stars that are insanely far away look like and how they interact with. I mean, it's it's a it's a magical device. And I think there's this shift happening in society and culture towards having screen time anxiety and thinking of screens as a bad thing. Yeah. And I think we've started thinking of them as screens and not as computers or screens and not as tools. And they become passive consumption devices instead of creation tools. And that is what we are obsessed with, I would say, is teaching kids to figure out how to wield the wand and use it to do powerful and important things. Uh and so we focus a lot on coding and 3D modeling and these kind of immersive simulations about microbiology or you know, building factories on an alien planet. We're we're obsessed with yeah, how do you how do you uh allow the kid to be more competent, capable, you know, and make them feel powerful by giving them the keys and instructions on how to use this thing. Yeah. And so that that's what most of our classes are about. And they start really fun because we want to win the kids' excitement and attention and interest. So they start off you're playing Minecraft and hanging out, and then you want to build a trapdoor, and you need to know a little bit about redstone, which is like circuits and binary, to be able to make your trapdoor work so that it falls so no one can get in your house, and then you want to do this, and then you want to make this automated thing, and then you want to play this game, and then sometime around 9, 10, once you've done you know, five hours a week of kind of this motion, we start leveling you up into coding and building your own projects. Um and so that's what so I go through the specifics of classes, but all the classes are geared towards figuring out how to teach kids to use this wand and think of computers like a tool instead of um like a video delivery screen.

SPEAKER_02: 29:36

Yeah. Yeah. And I think a lot of people feel like that because people don't understand. You know, I mean, my generation, we Google came out whenever I was in school, and I remember like my husband learned how to type on a typewriter. Like we had computers and they would be like, okay, research something on the World Wide Web, and we would all look up like cats, you know, because we had no idea like what it was really capable of. And I think a lot of people still don't understand what it's capable of, and it can be so much more. And like you said, passive consumption.

SPEAKER_00: 30:05

I think nobody understand. I mean, uh I think the no one we have not found the limit yet of how powerful computers are gonna get. Yeah, that's true. I think they're gonna keep it's not it's not slowing down either. It feels like it's picking up. Right. And you know, you'd be hard pressed to find a job that doesn't move like isn't um like plumbing or working on oil rigs or or many of the physical jobs that where most of the work isn't happening on the computer. From artists to architects to musicians to teachers to yes, programmers, to people who do finance, it's all on the computer. Yeah. Uh so it is it's the old so I don't know, this is my it's gonna be a big part of your kids' lives, and like probably they're gonna do a lot of their most of their work on it. Right. Um and so yeah, we're that's what that's what our classes are mostly about is teaching your kid mastery over this tool. I love it.

SPEAKER_02: 31:08

Well, uh Ben, we appreciate your time and your insight and everything that you're doing. Again, I've been super Impressed with everything I've seen at Recess. If you've never heard of recess.gg, you need to go check it out. It is like if you've if you've looked at Minecraft or anything like that, it is kind of like a world like that where the kids can literally move around in this virtual world. It is just a completely different feel from anything else I've seen as far as online learning goes. So we'll make sure we link to that in the show notes. Make it super easy for you to go check it out and check out Ben and his crew over there. And you might be interested in having your kids take some classes. And Ben, if somebody has any like questions about things, what's the best way? Is then just go to the website. Is that the best way to get some answers?

SPEAKER_00: 31:50

Yeah, you can go to the website. Um you can email me, Ben at recess.gg. I like hearing from prospective parents and from our existing parents, and I reply pretty fast. So if you email me at ben at recess.gg, like my kid wants to learn how to code and I don't know what to do, or whatever your your questions are, I'll uh yeah, I'll reply and be happy to get your email.

SPEAKER_02: 32:12

All right, awesome. Well, thank you so much for your time and thank you for what you're doing and the problem in education that you are are fixing because um it is very real and um and so it like I said, it's just really amazing. I'm saying this from experience because I've seen the kids in there. It's really amazing watching their excitement over learning, and it's what we all want for our kids. So thanks for what you're doing.

SPEAKER_00: 32:33

Thanks. Thanks for having me.

SPEAKER_02: 32:35

All right, have a good day.

SPEAKER_00: 32:37

Bye you too.