SPEAKER_00 0:38

Welcome back to Speak Out Standout. I'm Elizabeth Green. And today we're talking with Mandy Cook. Mandy is a teacher and the founder of The Autistic Teacher, an online platform with a goal of helping support autistic people and their families. Mandy, we are glad to have you here. Thanks for being here today. Lovely to be here. So, Mandy, how obviously you're a teacher, right? You went to school, you knew probably from a young age you wanted to be a teacher. How did you get to the point, though, where the autistic teacher is your program, your foundation, your focus?

Discovering Autism At School And Home

Isolation To Action: Charity And Platform

SPEAKER_01 1:08

It's been a huge journey, actually. So as a teacher, I first came into contact with autistic children. And that was kind of my introduction to autism. These children that were supposed to be somehow different, and I I really connected with them. One of the boys that would run down the corridor and say, listen, listen. And I don't think he actually meant listen, but I was just I was hooked, absolutely fascinated. Then as a teacher, I specialized in challenging behavior, then in autism. And then at the same time, I was um I had three of my own children, and they were starting to be diagnosed with um autism as well. So from both professionally and personally, my journey was well and truly autism. Um and then I guess just specialising in in-depth, both at home and at school. I think at home actually was really where my journey began. I learned so much from my own children, and I learned about myself as well. So going to the assessments, they will ask you about all the different autistic traits. And I'm sitting there thinking, well, that's me too. And and I do that, and and I like routines, and no, that's perfectly normal for me. Um, and so I then discovered that I was autistic as well. Um, so I then specialized uh even more so in the S EN and autistic children in school. So I now lead an autism specialist provision um in school, and I had four children, three diagnosed, one on the pathway at home. So I guess with all of that, um I think first of all I realized the isolation because I had autistic children, and it was difficult to go out and meet some of the other parents. Some of the other um children in the playground didn't necessarily want to play with my children. Um it made it really challenging. So the first one of the first things I did was set up a support group for other parents, and um goodness, I can't maybe the five-ish years ago, um, but my husband and I now run um an autism charity, and we run youth groups, Lego groups, girls groups, adult groups, um, in our spare time, as well as the full-time job running an autism provision, and the autistic teacher, which was then a platform that I decided to start at two o'clock in the morning because I wanted um just children and people to be proud of themselves. I'd come across so many autistic children who had low self-esteem, um, parents who had just sort of been given a diagnosis, didn't have information about autism or their autistic children, and so I wanted to help. So I set up the autistic teacher online as well. Um I think that was three years ago now. Um and I have 180,000 followers-ish.

unknown 4:41

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 4:42

It's obviously a much needed, a much needed um platform, right? Um, you know, this is something that we we hear about autism all the time now. I mean, I'm sure that everybody knows at least one person who is autistic, but we are just now getting to the point where it's talked about in a way, and like you said, that there the support is offered as opposed to before, like you said, it was just a diagnosis, okay, figure it out. And also, it is such a large spectrum. You know, obviously, you know, one autistic person is not like the next. And so as a parent, how do you start to navigate that without support? So, you know, the growth of your platform obviously shows the desire and the need for that support that that families need whenever they're facing this.

SPEAKER_01 5:25

And just you touched on there, the diversity is absolutely huge. Um, so my three autistic children, just for an example of going out to the shop, because they're so very, very different, they're all diagnosed as autistic. Um, so my eldest has more of a PDA profile. So, out of anxiety, if I asked him to do something, the answer would be no. Completely no, just shut down. Um, and so just going to the shop with him, I might have to approach in a a different way and say, Hey, you know, we've run out of bread. What do you think we should do? And he may then suggest maybe we should go to the shop. Great idea. Let's go. The next child down was more of a wanted to know the whys, wanted to know why we were doing something. He needed to know the reasons in order to understand. So for him, it would be, okay, I've run out of bread. We need to make your sandwiches for tomorrow for school. So we need to go and get some bread. It's raining outside, we're gonna need shoes on. We're gonna go in the car, we're gonna go this way and give full explanation, we're gonna go to a place that you know. Then he was okay. And then the third child was more um I had to put things in a bite-size form, so it would at that point be we're going to the shops, shoes, coat, and giving support in order for them to be able to do that. Um, and that's just my three, you know. So I think then seeing other people with their children also given this diagnosis of autism, and they're all completely different. There is no manual I I know they say that for children, but I think in some ways people expect, well, they're autistic, for them to all be in one one way, one approach, but there really isn't. There are so many different approaches. Um, and and yeah, and that was just my three. So yeah, a lot of it is trial and error because it's knowing the child, it's having that relationship first and seeing what works, what doesn't. And the really fun thing is that the next week it might not work.

SPEAKER_00 7:51

That and that is just like any child, right? Absolutely. Once you think you have things figured out, they change it up on you. That's parenting. So, well, outside of, you know, there's so much diversity within autism, and like you said, figuring out what works for each individual. What are what are the other struggles that you see that families with autistic kids are dealing with that they need support with? What are what is like if there was one big thing that you're like, this is where people struggle the most? Or is can it even be narrowed down to one thing?

SPEAKER_01 8:27

I'm not sure it can. Um a lot of people, parents will struggle with education, finding the right education for their child. Um again, the education system will often want to put children into boxes, and autistic children just don't, because we are all so unique, so diverse. Um, we have a spoky spiky profile, so they may be really good at one thing and something else really struggle with. And so trying to grasp that in some sort of framework is really challenging, both for an education system, but also for families who just want the right setting, the right environment for their children, for their children to be understood.

SPEAKER_00 9:13

Yeah. And that's that's a big part of you know what we talk about here is ways to build communication skills and confidence in our kids and teens. And obviously, kids with autism have typically more severe struggles when it comes to communications than somebody who's neurotypical. What kind of advice or strategies or tips do you give to parents to help them find help them help that their child find their voice?

Education Systems And Spiky Profiles

Finding A Child’s Voice

SPEAKER_01 9:43

It really depends on where they're at and the challenges that they have. Um when I was a child, I was situational mute. Um, some people would call it selective mute, but I don't like the term selective because that makes it sound like a choice. And it wasn't a choice. It it I had no choice. My words were stolen from me at that time. Um, and so in school I was put in a special reading group because the teacher couldn't hear me read, so she assumed I couldn't read. Um, and I'd go home and read my chapter books because I could read, but I couldn't speak in school. So that's somebody with situational mutism, and that comes out of anxiety and needs a lot of understanding, um, and options. I think the temptation is to try and push someone who is situational mute to speak, but actually they need understanding, time, patience, and perhaps another way to communicate as well. Writing it down, even gestures. Um, I mean, I would totally go for total communication approach in that any communication is valid, whatever they feel comfortable with, and that's when the confidence grows rather than the other way around. Um for some children, communication is really challenging. Um, for some autistic children, they don't learn to speak, and again, finding other ways is really key. I know um for the children in my provision, we use a lot of macathon, we use a lot of visuals, um, a lot of symbols that they can point to. Um, and then you have something called a guest out learner, so that's a child who will learn with a a phrase rather than just individual words. As educators, very often we will teach phonics, bits of sounds. So like at. But actually a lot of our autistic children will learn phrases. So they may see a film and get hold of a phrase, maybe let's go. And they're repeating, let's go. And so I tend to use that and I I might mitigate and sort of change that up. Let's go to the classroom or let's go to the playground. Because you're meeting them where they're at and building that confidence. Um so lots oh, and AAC devices as well. Um, so like um an iPad with uh choices where they can point on a communication board or choose a symbol that can also help. So yeah, it really depends on the child, but absolutely meet the child where they are at and go for total communication. Why does it have to be spoken words? Why can't it be written? Um, there are amazing um autistic people who don't use words and you know have actually authored books because they can type, they can communicate, and I think sometimes the focus is being um perceived to be normal and and what is normal? You know, absolutely total communication, however they are comfortable to communicate.

SPEAKER_00 13:11

I love that you started with the story of your teacher thought you couldn't read because you couldn't read aloud. And I think that one of the things that I think is um beautiful about where we're at now in our understanding, and obviously there's still so far to go, but technology of opening up those doors, like you said with iPads and things. Um, you know, I saw, I think when I when we first connected, I was telling you about a story I saw about a nonverbal autistic boy in the US, and he's also uh paraplegic, but he can use his thumb. And his dad set up a system for him to type. And now that child, well, he's a teenager, is at MIT, one of the most prestigious universities in the United States. And I think it's so important for us as a society to remember that just because somebody's not verbalizing, you know, things that we think they should doesn't mean that it's not up here with so much more that we just have to figure out how to help them get it out.

SPEAKER_01 14:11

100%. Yeah. Yeah. I it's giving them that confidence. Um, you know, a lot of autistic children that I meet um don't have great self-esteem, they don't think very highly of themselves. Sometimes I think that is down to um even the assessment to be autistic, because it looks at all the deficits, you know, what's wrong with your child. Um and the children grow up around that narrative. Um, one of the first things I did in my new setting, because we have I think 40 children in total, was put up a mirror in one of the one of the corridors. And at the top it says, You are amazing, and at the bottom it says you are perfect just the way you are. And they all look at this mirror, and you know, those that are supporting them will tell them what it says, repeat what it says. And I just think that's so important for those children to know that they are perfect just the way they are, they are amazing, um, just to build that confidence so that they grow up knowing that you know they they're beautiful, they're beautiful mini human beings at that point, um, to grow up into beautiful human beings. So yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:32

Yeah. I have such hope that with the development of technology and as quickly as things move in today's world, um, that we are going to be able to unlock the communication for more and more autistic people. I I feel like they there are people out there that probably know how to solve, how to cure cancer. You know, we just have to guess because you know, you know, as an autistic person, your brain works differently. And you can focus on things and process things that neurotypical brains can't. You know what I mean? Like it's it can be a huge if we look past the the struggles of this self-esteem and communication and confidence, which like you said, that's your goal to build those things. I feel like, you know, there's amazing, amazing things that autistic people can do that neurotypical people can't. We just have to give them the tools to be able to do it and the patience, right?

Tech, AAC, And Gestalt Language

SPEAKER_01 16:25

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think, you know, absolutely. There's so many strengths, so many benefits. Um, and I think we lose sight of that sometimes. And I think you know, we we need to be aware that actually those things can really benefit. I know we've had um is it M MI5? It's the UK kind of FBI type people. Um, and they were advertising for autistic people because they understand that some of those people um can hyperfocus, can understand patterns. Um, and it's just it's fascinating that people are now realizing some of the benefits of an autistic brain. Right.

SPEAKER_00 17:03

I am so glad that we are, and it it makes me so sad to look backwards in time and think of how people with autism were treated again just because they couldn't get out what was actually in their in their heads. If you were, if somebody's listening today and their child was just diagnosed with autism or they suspect that they're going down that path, what uh what are the first things you tell somebody who's encountering this and and just just starting to figure out, okay, we gotta, you know, we gotta do things differently here. What is what are the first things you say to them?

Reframing Deficits And Building Esteem

SPEAKER_01 17:33

The first thing I would say is congratulations, um, which tends to throw them. And I'm kind of no, this is you need to know why, you know. This is not a bad thing. Your child is not broken, perhaps learns in a different way, perhaps communicates in a different way. But we need to understand that world and we can go into that world. It is a jo journey, it's not straightforward. But actually it's it it can be a really wonderful journey. Yes, there are challenges, 100% there are challenges, um, but it's a it's a different journey. It it's not that a child is broken, I I think is um one of the main messages, because it's that constant negative narrative um that you challenge um so that they can see the positives of their child. Um not only for the child but for the the parent as well. It it's amazing that um you can have children that will absolutely hyperfocus on a particular subject and they might not know much um about I don't know, academics. I d I had one girl who was she doesn't say a lot, she knows a few words, and she was building with Lego because she loved Lego and suddenly she was telling me when the Statue of Liberty was bought um built. I was like, oh my goodness, I I couldn't even check that. I mean, I've I'm there with Google, you know. And then she went on to um the Eiffel Tower. I was just like, oh my goodness. Yeah, it can be these really random um hyperfocuses that as autistic people, because we think very deeply, that they know a lot about. Um, sometimes the temptation is to sort of dismiss those, but actually I would encourage you to focus on your child's interests and on those hyperfocuses because we can learn a lot of information about those things, and many autistic people have become experts in their fields because that's something they're really interested in. Um that's just another example of maybe doing things slightly differently. Um my daughter um didn't speak till maybe age four. Um, and when she started to speak, she spoke in Spanish, not English. I I don't see speak Spanish at all, which was um yeah, yeah, that that was so how did where did she learn it? Was it like a TV show or how did So yeah, so I had two boys first, and then the girl came along and was like, oh my goodness, what do I do with a girl? Um and she didn't like dolls, she didn't play with toys, her favourite toy was not really toy, it was broccoli, she loved broccoli. So I used to put Dora the Explorer on the TV. Mm-hmm. Yeah. So um I mean she would come up to the the baby gate because she had no safety awareness. I had a baby gate on on the kitchen. She'd come up to the baby gate, obre, obre. Oh my goodness, what what is she saying? And then of course I had um he was five or six at the time. Um the child that needed to know the why, you know, very clever, and he'd come, oh mummy, that's um open in Spanish. Well my goodness! You know, I got a five-year-old speaking Spanish and a six-year-old translating, and yeah. We we just well, yeah, we did things very differently. Um she did eventually start to speak English and she's just done her GCSE in English. I don't know if you should do GCSEs in America, um, but she is 16, going on 17, and got a distinction in English language. Um that's from non-speaking. So I I think you know, we just do things differently. Yeah.

First Steps After A Diagnosis

SPEAKER_00 21:40

Well, I have one last question for you, and then of course anything else that you would like to share. What do you say to the families uh who don't have autistic children? We have neurotypical children, they're in a world with children with autism and adults and all of that. What do you how do you explain it to a kid that yes, this other child in your class may learn different from you, but you you're still going to treat them just the same. They're just a human like everybody else. You know, what do you what can we tell our neurotypical kids so that they are also looking at this, like you said, in a positive. This can be a really good thing. It's different, but it can be a good thing instead of oh, they have autism and it sounding like it's a bad thing, you know? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:24

I tend to focus on differences so that we are all different. Um, some of those differences you can see, some of those differences you can't see, but it's getting to know that person and what works. For them. So if that person needs quiet places, then that's what works for them. If that person doesn't speak, that's okay. Maybe we can use another way to communicate. So I go down the line of differences and you know understanding that that particular child because we couldn't give um or say to our children it's because they're autistic, because not all autistic people are exactly the same. Everyone is individual. So you couldn't say, you know, they don't like hugs because maybe they do, or uh they don't like loud noises because maybe they do, because all autistic people are individual. So I would always go down the route of um just differences and getting to know that particular child. And I think that applies to other children, not just autistic children, just getting to know the person and understanding that we're all different. Yeah, I think that's great advice.

SPEAKER_00 23:40

Well, Mandy, I think this has been a great conversation. Is there anything else that we I haven't asked you about or we haven't discussed that you think people should know or you know that you'd like to leave us with? I can't think of anything. I can't think of anything. Well, that's good. That means we've had a good conversation. So and and for anybody who's listening, if you are interested in learning more about what Mandy does and her organization, her charity, we'll make sure the links to all of those are um right here. So whether you're watching or listening, just look around, you'll see the links for those things. You can also connect with Mandy and follow her on social media. She puts out a lot of great information and resources. So Mandy, again, I appreciate. I know you've had a long day of teaching your regular job and then talking with me in the evening. I appreciate you taking the time. And you you have opened, I feel like I'm because I work in education too and work with a lot of neurodivergent kids that I have a good grasp on it, but you have really opened my mind today to things I had never considered. So I think um I just really appreciate your time and your insight. It's been lovely to be here. So thank you very much. And thanks for listening.