SPEAKER_00 0:38

Welcome back to Speakout Standout. I'm Elizabeth Green and today's guest is Jan Talon. Jan is a licensed marriage and family therapist, and she uses her training and her own experiences to help families stay stay strong and connected. And Jan, we're really excited. I know you've got some great things to share with us today. Thanks for being here.

SPEAKER_01 0:55

I'm so glad to be here. I love families. I love teenagers. And I love it when they really click together.

SPEAKER_00 1:02

And that, as we anybody with a family and teenagers specifically, know that that is not always the case. So I am thrilled that you're going to be giving us some tips today. Now, I know you focus a lot on marriage. And for anybody listening, you know, if you've listened to this podcast before, you know, we talk about ways to build communication skills in our kids. However, um, a big part of uh the way we do that is the way they see us communicate with others. So we are talking more about how we communicate with our partners today, but this absolutely still applies to building those same skills in your kids. So, Jan, just first and foremost, give us a quick background. How did you get to where this is the, you know, this is your calling in life?

SPEAKER_01 1:42

Yeah. No, you're right. Calling in life, my passion, people say, why aren't you retired? I because I like what I do. Um marriages have always fascinated me. And so very early on, when there was a brand new first time being offered in California a marriage and family therapy license. Um, and I hopped on that train in the state and private practice, working with marriages, working with families, working with individuals for over 35 years. Um, I paused the daily um meeting with clients to move into the online world, partly because only three to four percent of people ever seek a therapist. Oh, wow. But a whole lot of us could use knowledge that a therapist has. Right. And so here I am. I'm cheap. Look, you're listening for free, and I'm gonna give you professional information that's well researched and well known and usable. So I'm glad to be here.

Why Tone Matters More Than Words

SPEAKER_00 2:44

Yeah, I'm excited to have you here. And so, so obviously, you know, there are a lot of different facets of relationships and marriage. And then you throw uh parenting in there, which completely just flips the whole everybody's life upside down. Um, and anybody who's listening, obviously, if you're a parent, you've been through this, you understand that. But one of the biggest challenges, I think, comes from communication or lack thereof. Would you agree that that tends to be the root of the issue?

SPEAKER_01 3:14

Yeah, I adjusted just a little bit in this way. We are always communicating because we're either doing it verbally, that's 20% of our communication. And stats will give us three or four percent plus or minus there, but we'll call it an even 80 for our minds. And the other, or we'll call it an even 20 for verbal, and then we'll give 80% of it to tone, eye contact, body stance, um, choice of words. So the words can be fine, but how they are said makes such a difference. And so all of that nonverbal is a huge, huge part of communication. We're always communicating. Yeah what people are reading from it, and a lot of it people like, oh, that's just mom, she just does that. And so they gloss over it and they let it go. But we're always communicating. So sometimes we pick up on things our kids didn't think they were sending and aren't aware of it. And sometimes our kids are picking up on stuff from us that we didn't think we were sending, but our kids have picked up on it and being able to slow down and say, What's happening here? And you can hear me, I'm slowing down. What's happening here? That curious question different than a what's happening here kind of thing. Those are different. Listen to my tone, say words. You listen to the tone and the approach, and that helps the other person respond in a way, hopefully, that we're able to meet in the middle, um, sort of with accuracy about what are we really talking about? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:02

Well, and there are several things here I want to dig into. But one, what um, the way you just gave that same sentence, same words, but in a different way. That's something that we teach in our classes when we're talking about speech writing and how you just change the emphasis on one word, it changes the entire meaning. And we give them a simple sentence and they have to emphasize each word differently. And every time it changes it. So that's easy to think about in the world of I want to get this point across in my speech and I'm preparing in advance. How do we actually do that in real time, especially maybe in the heat of a moment when we're over-stimulated and frustrated? And, you know, how do we, how do we get our brains to stop and think about that?

SPEAKER_01 5:42

Um, well, the first thing I'm gonna say to get your brain to stop is to take a really not not a roll your eyes breath, but a really deep breath and hold it and blow it out. You know, don't blow it out and roll your eyes because your body language is gonna throw it all off. You need to have some good oxygen in your brain, and you have to have the CO2 out of your brain for your brain to function well. Okay, can I talk about Dan Siegel and hand brain for a minute? Sure. Okay. So Dan Siegel um writes books about young children and development. This is going to be true as we grow um and our teenagers mature. So Dan Siegel will say, This is um our brainstem, our hand coming up, and this is our brainstem coming into our head. This is the core of our brain when we're born, and our, I'm sorry, that's a really ugly thumb, but I just saw that. Um this is our emotional base that comes into our brain. This is how we are born without these four fingers: brain stem, core of our brain, and emotional access. As we grow, two, three, four years old, these fingers start to grow. But they're not, see, look, they're still not connected to your emotions. They're up here. You know those things that fly around in the wind? Um, advertisement things that look really funny. Buy me, buy me, that kind of thing. That's what these are until a person is four or five. They're sort of just floating around in your brain, they're attached. By the time we're four or five, they start to become this way and they start to wrap over the emotions. Now think of this as your brain hugging its ch each other. This is logic and knowledge. And now logic and knowledge can talk to emotions. When we become stressed, when there's too much carbon dioxide, meaning we're highly anxious or angry, those two will almost always go together. We flip our lid. Emotion stays intact and inflamed, but our logic is unavailable. It is flying in the wind. It takes 20 minutes. The skies start to relax. Now we might be able to problem solve. This doesn't this is not for true. I mean, this is true for two, three, four-year-olds, but it's also true for 12, 14, 16, and 40, 42, and 44-year-olds. It doesn't change.

SPEAKER_00 8:22

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 8:24

So when you are ramped up saying, I need a minute, and going in your bathroom, getting a drink of water, taking some long, slow breaths out to get that carbon dioxide out so that you can clear the adrenaline and the cortisol so that you can think now you don't have to make apologies for when you're talking when you've said something because it's going to make sense. And when you've paused, you've given your kid time to pause and their brain to come together too.

SPEAKER_00 9:02

That's such a great visual. I love that that you were able, if I hope if you're listening to this, you were able to visualize it. If not, watch it because you can see your hands. It just makes makes very much perfect sense. I mean, we know that we react differently in the heat of a moment, but that there's actual science behind it that explains this is why and this is how you can avoid it is very helpful to know.

SPEAKER_01 9:22

Yes, and you know, people say we got to solve it right now, we got to solve it right now. Well, if there's fire and big blood, maybe you do. But otherwise, most things can wait. And we parented four teenagers, I mean four kids, right? They're all alive and well. Um, but they would say the painfulest part was you saying we have to think about it. Because we, if we didn't know what to do, we didn't do. We paused. A couple of times we paused for two days because we asked, what don't we know? And we waited until we answered the questions of what don't we know? I don't know. Did that parent really do that? I don't know. Is that really what happened at school? I don't know. And before I parent, I gotta slow down and figure out what don't I know? And should I figure it out first before I make a parenting decision? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:22

I think that's so uh much easier said than done, but so important. And especially I always think as a parent, especially if it's a situation where our kids are upset, maybe we're not having an issue between us, but they're having an issue with somebody else, and Mama Bear comes out and I want to fix it, and I want to fix the problems, and I don't want my child to be upset. And I think it's so it's hard in in any situation, whether I'm frustrated with my child or worried, to pause and um and like you said, to figure out what what I don't know. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:53

So I have a little formula I could share. Yes, um that I think is could work pretty well here. We I call it the DNA way to communicate. The D stands for decide what you need to know and do. It's a the decide. So this is a pausing space. Consider, wonder, what do I need? I need to decide that before I can move forward in a way that's going to make any sense. Then I have to notice what do I need? Do I need more calm? Do I need more information? Do I need me and my spouse to be on the same page? Me and my partner, me and my ex, whatever that is. Do I need us to be on the same page? Okay, and what do I need to connect with my kid? Okay, do I need more humor? Do I need their favorite food? Okay, do we need a car ride or a bike ride? What do I need to connect with them? Because if you're not connected, your communication is not gonna matter. They have to know that you are for them. Okay, now I figured out what I needed and I figured out where I want this to go, my deciding where do I want this to end up, and now I'm going to apply that in a way that fits my kiddo. Okay, or if I'm trying to convince myself spouse to get on my side, talk to them in a way that will talk to them. Not what makes sense to you, talk in a way that makes sense to them. This is uh the A, it's applying it appropriately. Yeah, okay. When you do that, when you slow down enough to decide where do I need to go, what do I need to get there, and how am I going to apply it to actually get there? You change the DNA of your family communication.

SPEAKER_02 12:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:57

For sure.

SPEAKER_00 12:58

Because it's not responsive. It's or you know, what's it is reactive. Reactive, right? It's responsive, not reactive. Yes. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 13:08

Yeah. Um, and uh that in so many times when we're especially when we're talking to teenagers, their brains are very similar to those two to two to four-year-olds. They're massively rewiring. Logic is not always snapped right down next to emotions. Don't we know it? Don't we know it, right? Um, and emotions, when when the when our logic isn't well attached, our emotions can go really wild.

unknown 13:37

Yeah.

The DNA Method For Communication

SPEAKER_01 13:37

Okay. We uh kids want to call it hormones. I call it that the brain is still rewiring. This has to get reattached. Now hormones and logic can talk to each other. We'll be better. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:50

I love that um, and I'm so glad you said that this applies to all of us because I'm thinking about my own relationship with my now 17-year-old. Um, and we went through a little bit of a rough patch over those years 14, 15, 16. And ultimately, it's when I started this podcast. And I always say, like, if I'm the only one who ever learned anything from this podcast, it was well worth it because I learned so much from people like you. And that is one of the key things I think that transitioned our relationship was me pausing. That that is one of the key things that I have heard from people so many times because you know, I'm I'm responsive. I'm gonna respond right now when I get this done. And when I started taking a step back and thinking things through and mainly calming down, it changed everything. And then as I did that more, he started doing that more. And it it is absolutely, I mean, it transitioned our relationship. So I think there's so much, I'm I'm glad that you said like there's so much to communication outside of just what we say, because it all applies. But if you understand those two things, that pausing and getting yourself together before you respond or meet your child where they're at, and and that you are communicating, even if you're not using words, if you can understand those two things and work on those, that can absolutely make a difference. I know personally.

Turning Off Retorts And Listening

SPEAKER_01 15:08

So can I go back just a little bit farther? If that we um in that pausing, what you're doing is setting up a space for connecting. So there are three parts that make communication complete. And I'm gonna not use the language here that's gonna make it totally good, but you're gonna make sense out of it. The first part is you have to use connection, and connection is hormonal and relational. Hormonal, meaning we use eye contact, we use tone of voice, we use body stance because what we want is for whoever we're talking to to be not be afraid to look us in the eye because we have to connect. When our kids are ashamed, they're gonna look down, they're gonna look away, they're gonna fidget, they're gonna do everything else. That's a sign of shame. And we're gonna come back to our kiddos with a whole lot of just gentle um this doesn't mean I'm gonna change my parenting decision, but I'm gonna approach it in a way that says, you are more important to me than what is right and what is wrong. The relationship is first, and you matter to me. We did this to one of our teenage girls. She was just naughty, naughty, naughty. We had three girls in the sun. And uh my husband talked, we decided it's it's connection. And so I mean, we could come down hard, but really what we said is okay, three times a week, you get to walk the dog with one of us. A month later, that girl was all in. All we had to do was insist on connection because it said you are important enough for us to be sure. We didn't always walk the dog, but because we were doing this with her, we were walking the dog. Because we wanted to be with her.

SPEAKER_00 17:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 17:05

Connection matters. And if you don't connect, your communication, your words, your decisions are not going to have the impact. The kid will do it because they're why you're watching, but when you're not watching, they'll go off and do their own thing again. Right. It's connection that helps them transition their motives and their desires into a place that's more healthy. Yeah. I love that.

SPEAKER_00 17:31

I love it. And so you you've talked about several different points, and you might have already touched on this, but one of the things that um a talking point that you had sent me that uh really appealed to me was how do I turn off my retorts? So I come, you know, my business, we teach speech and debate. And so rebuttals and being ready to respond to the other side is hugely important and something that I'm very, very guilty of in my personal life. So besides the the pausing, right, and the DNA application, are there other ways that we can, if you if you're listening and you're like me and you gotta have the last word or you're gonna respond? What how do we how do we not?

Problem Solving Questions Teens Respect

SPEAKER_01 18:12

Well, uh part one, I want you to go back to what do I desire? Do I desire to be right or do I desire relationship? And you really have to decide that. I mean, everybody on their heads, of course I want the relationship. Uh go check your head. That's hard. Go check your heart. Yeah. Um, because wanting the relationship may mean that you have to let something slide for the sake of the relationship. Okay, I live in Michigan, right? Son wants to wear shorts every day of the year. Do I want to be right? You should wear pants. It's our minus three out there. Or do I go? Oh well, he's doesn't think he's cold. His legs have not frozen off yet. You want to wear shorts? Go ahead. On you right, right? Okay, so that's a part of it. And then retorting in my world usually means I haven't listened. I just want to get my thought across. And which you can slow down and say, okay, I'm gonna hear what they are actually saying. Not just their words, but what's their request and what's their need. And it's almost an almost always a connection need and a trust need. Trust me, let me make my own decisions. Okay, because then you can talk about in my re-retort is well, yeah, but that won't work. Okay, you have to do it this way. And the kid is saying, I think that it will be fine if I take the car from me and this out in the snow. You're North Carolina people, not too much snow except for last year. Okay. Well, then instead of retorting, that's not gonna work, we just had 12 more inches. Do I go that way, or do I say, hi, Greece? Driving in the snow is pretty fun. Tell me how you're going to manage when you get stuck, or tell me how you're going to manage when you um have come to a place that the street that you want to go on has too much snow, and you have to make a different plan on how to get to where you want to be. Snow plows really are doubt yet. Now I've created a conversation that has problem solving in it. And it helps the kiddos think, do I really want to do this? You know, if I say, you know, um a plow truck costs about 150 if or a plow truck, um, um a tow truck costs about 150 if you got to get pulled out. And that's probably not on my nickel. Oh yeah, you're probably right about that. You know, and and if I say, I will gladly take you and pick you up because I hear going there's important. Okay, now we're working towards some problem solving. He he or she can hear that I'm on their side in some way. Okay, and sometimes I'm in my 12 inches of snow, given my reality. Um, but it could be rain given the last few months of the world. Um, okay, or it could just be the group of friends or whatever. Just say, how are you going to manage where I see the trouble spots?

unknown 21:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 21:34

Okay. And the kid will say, There aren't going to be any trouble spots. You know, like I didn't say there are or there aren't. I'm asking you to look forward a little bit and to think and to plan. Yeah. That's a life skill you have to have your whole life. I'm asking you to use it. I hope you don't have to use it, but I'm asking you to use it with me.

SPEAKER_00 21:54

Yeah. Well, and I love what you're saying too. And you because for me, I would, I'm an explainer too. If I'm going to tell them no, I'm going to give them 15 reasons why I decided no. And what you're doing is the same thing, but you're asking them to come up with these reasons. And that I get my son would be so much more receptive to that than for me to list off the things. But again, you're like you said, you're connecting, you're having a conversation. It's that changes it from a lecture to a conversation and obviously building those critical thinking skills, which are so important. Yes. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:26

Well, and it empowers them. Yes. If you know that all of a sudden they're feeling honored and respected because you said, Well, tell me how you would do it. I'm not judging, I'm simply asking. How would you do it? And sometimes my kids pushed back on that. And sometimes I'm like, you know things I don't know. I want to know how you would do it. Okay, there was a time my son wanted to have uh 12 or 15 kids out to the cottage. I um he wanted to have a bonfire, a good group of kids. I wasn't really worried about that. I said, I'm coming. He said, No, you're not. I'm not having my mother out there. Kind of thing. And I said, Yes, I am. I am not going to bother you or your friends, but if the cops show up at the door because somebody complained, I'm taking the wrap, not you.

SPEAKER_02 23:15

And he went, hmm.

SPEAKER_01 23:18

I said, the last thing you need is for a rumor to go home that you guys all had a drunken, crazy party and kept the whole neighborhood awake. I said, I know that's not going to happen, but I can't control you know the the perception and the rumor. Right. If I'm there, I can. Yes. Yeah. Um, but that's so you can sort of hear how I'm parenting that there's some sacrifice on the part of the parent. But when the kid sees that you're protecting and you're not gonna be invasive, I wasn't asking to sit around the campfire. I was going to go and bring out hot chocolate every 22 minutes just to see what's what's going on. I brought my book and I was gonna snuggle down and read my book.

Modeling Healthy Talk And Redos

SPEAKER_00 24:10

I love it. I love it. But do you have any? I know we're we're already running low on time. I think this has been a great conversation. Jan, do you have any other tips or tricks that you think like people need to know this before we wrap up today of ways that we can better communicate with our spouses, our partners, our kids, all the things?

SPEAKER_01 24:28

Yeah, the thing we haven't really talked about is that that modeling between your spouse, your partner, even your ex is such a powerful way of communicating and helping our kids grow into good habits. If your habits, your communication habits could be up level, do that. Do it with your friends, practice with the radio. I I used to practice all the time with the radio. Okay, they'd say something and I'd say, I think in my head, that's stupid. Then I think, now how would you say that if that was my house and I would have to rewrite it? But I practiced the radio didn't care. Okay. You practice this with your spouse and with your um with your kids and with your friends. If you need a redo, say redo. Say pause a minute. Let's let's let's back up. We can do this better. Okay. Slow down. Of course, if you need some support from me, then you just connect with me. Okay, we figured that out. And um, and that's not not a big sell. That's just I can probably help you get your feet on the ground. Yeah. Um, and help you just twitch something as often three to five degrees and we're back and going. It's not huge, but it's important because three to five times five years of um teenager world or more is often 15 to 20 to 30 degrees. Now we're a long ways away. Fix it at your three to five degrees.

unknown 26:00

Yeah.

Marriage Quiz And Micro Tips

SPEAKER_00 26:01

Well, this has really been very enlightening. I so appreciate your time and all of your insight. And you have freebies that people listening to can take advantage of. Um, you have a marriage quiz on your website, right? And so um, we will link to that. So if you're listening or watching, the link is right wherever you are. So you can pop over to do the marriage quiz. And then that also follows up with some uh some prompts or some tips. Or tell us just a little bit about that. Yeah, so the marriage quiz really takes about two minutes.

SPEAKER_01 26:30

Um and that then gives you a little feedback on where we think your marriage might be. Um, and then from that you can get five emails once a week um with a different micro-communication. This is a tip on how to stay connected. And these tips are appropriate for anybody. The only thing that I will adjust is because we wrote a first for marriages, is one of them says to give your spouse a six-second kiss. Adjust that to hugs with your children, please. That's the only thing that I would say. Um, those come with the um with the option for a free conversation as well. Um, and so um that genu genuinely is a free conversation.

SPEAKER_00 27:13

And the six-second kiss or hug, I I know that there's science behind that, right? It's like six seconds to to release the endorphins in your brain. Um I had heard that. And so my in my 17-year-old, um, now I make him get after school, he gives me a hug, but it I say it has to be a six or seven second hug to make the difference. I love it, and he he goes along with it. So I think that's a great tip. And I'm definitely going to be signing up because I want the other ones as well. So again, very much appreciate your time and thank you for listening. Everybody, have a great day.

SPEAKER_01 27:46

Thank you.