SPEAKER_01 0:38

Welcome back to Speak Out Standout. I'm Elizabeth Green, and today's guest is Corinne Lafont. Corrine is a strategic communication specialist. She's a mother of two, and she believes that our children have just as much or even more to teach us when it comes to listening, confidence, communication, and connection. So, Corrine, we are so excited to have this conversation with you today. Thanks for being here.

SPEAKER_00 0:59

Oh, thank you for having me. I was looking forward to this. It's been a while.

SPEAKER_01 1:04

It has been a while since we connected originally. And this has been something. So, our podcast, we always talk about ways to build confidence and communication skills in our kids. It's something that we actively

Welcome And A New Angle

SPEAKER_01 1:16

look for, ways that we can do this so we can, you know, help them build these skills. And today we're going to kind of reverse that topic a little bit and we're going to focus more on what our kids can actually teach us when it comes to communication, connection, and conversation. So, Kareem, before we like dive into all of that, tell us a little bit about how did you get to this point in your life where this is your focus and sharing this message message with people and helping them build confidence and communication skills is what you do.

SPEAKER_00 1:46

Well, like a lot of your audience, as you mentioned, I'm a mother. So that's the first thing, check. And I'm a woman, so another thing, check. And why I say as a woman, because women tend to over-communicate. Oh, yes. And women tend to over-explain. And women tend to overthink. And so I I think I'm qualified to be on the show to speak with.

SPEAKER_01 2:09

Oh no, more than qualified for sure. But but why do you do this? Why is this your passion and your goal?

SPEAKER_00 2:15

Because it comes naturally to me. Some people are not able to articulate themselves or be fluent. Some, you know, everybody has a particular gift. And I

Corinne’s Listening Superpower

SPEAKER_00 2:25

think communication is mine. And I have the unique ability and gift to be very intentional in listening to people and observing. Those are my two other main skills besides listening, you know, just observing and paying attention. So I see beyond the physical being. This is not going into any spirituality or anything like that, but you have to look beyond the person. Meaning words would come out someone's mouth, but it's not actually what they're saying. You can't hold on to those words and think that's exactly what a person is saying. It's much more than that. So you have to look at the context, you have to look at probably even where you are, the environment that could influence. So it is natural to me. I've always been a writer. Um, I used to help my mother with her reports. I just got swept into this particular area for some reason. Some things you may have studies. So, for example, I did my first degree in sociology, which helps to understand people's behavior and the psychology, you know, how they think, what, why do they do what they do? Why are they thinking what they're thinking? So it also adds value to what I'm doing. And so it just led me in this area. I I like to people watch, I like to listen to people, and I like to, you know, connect the dots. Yeah. And so it's it's very intriguing to me to just sit and listen and watch and try to figure out. I don't have to be in the conversation, I don't have to be near you at all, but I can figure from it your body language, your facial expression, what exactly is going on.

SPEAKER_01 3:56

Yeah. And I think, you know, we talk a lot about how we communicate, that we really do forget that listening is a huge part of that. And like you were just saying, when you were talking about that, you made me think of, you know, when I listened to my family, when I listened, my kids started their first day school back to school yesterday when they came home. I was trying to be very present because I really wanted to know how did the day go? What was the experience like with the teachers and all that? So I was thinking about it actively to put my computer away, like and be really focused. But in general, as moms, especially, we're we got a lot of different things going on. And so I know that I am personally guilty of halfway listening a lot of the time to my kids. And especially if it's something that I want to tell them, I'm very guilty of getting my point across and not necessarily listening to theirs. And so I'm glad that you started with that because listening is such a key part of communication that we just tend to ignore at times. So, so all that to say, that long like spiel to say, how can we become better listeners, whether it's at work or but especially in a situation like with our family, where they're just, you know, they're always random, kids are catering and all that. How do we become better listeners?

SPEAKER_00 5:12

I like, I like how you explained it because at the same time you have a lot of ideas you want to share. Sometimes somebody may say something and you want to interject because it triggers off a thought, it triggers off her memory, you know, or it's like, yeah, I wanted to ask about, and you cut them off, you know, and they might be in the middle of a thought or explaining something really wild and crazy, and then you cut

How To Stop Interrupting

SPEAKER_00 5:34

them off and they can't remember. Yeah. And that shows the whole thing, and then it kind of turns them off from talking to you, actually, because they're like every time I try to talk to Elizabeth, it's like I can't get her word out, I can't get to explain, you know. Yeah, and she spends the time trying to tell me about her day or asking her questions. So we have to step back. Sometimes some people need to have pen and paper, or I will say put away the phone, but try to develop the discipline of writing down your thoughts or even holding that thought that you want to say at the time for when the person is finished speaking. It requires a lot of discipline. And sometimes it may not come back to you at the moment when you want to ask, but it may come back later. The point about it is all thoughts will come back to you at the appropriate time. So you just have to wait, hold back your thoughts, give that person the respect, the courtesy, the time. You know, one of the love languages is quality time, and that is what the person is giving to you. It may not be your particular love language, but that's their love language. And we have to respect that. We have to respect that they want to spend quality time with you. For example, your kids to come and tell you about their day, they fell. Oh, um, John came and pushed me down the stairs, you know, or whatever it is. And you're like, What? Tell me what happened, and you go straight into the details because you know, kids, they want to tell you everything from top to bottom, right? So you have to be ready. Oh, yeah, and what happened? And and you get all engrossed, and and you're like, Oh my god, don't start to share now that that happened to you when you were a kid. It doesn't matter, it's not about you, it's about them at this particular point. So pay attention to them, get involved, just like how you would watch a soap opera and be like, oh my god, is that John Abbott? Is that Mr. So-and-so from the young and breath? You know, pay attention, give them the time because think about it, Elizabeth. You would want somebody to do the same for you. You would want somebody to give you that time, courtesy, and respect and not cut you off. So we have to put ourselves and the other person's shoe. How would we feel if we do that to them? So take a step back, hold your thoughts, even if you forget, it will come back at the appropriate time. It may not be the appropriate time to ask them, but you can write it down. And at the appropriate time, you may say, Hey, you were telling me about when John pushed you, or you got that cut on your knee, and something came to mind, but I didn't want to interrupt you at the point. But it came back to me now. What about so-and-so? Or what about and they'll be like, Oh, so you give the space, and then it gives you the space to think about do I really need it to ask that question? Or was it phrased in a way that could come across you know with empathy as opposed to aggressiveness? So you have that space to reframe and revise the question that you wanted to ask in such a loving way. And yet you may decide not to ask it again. Because between when you last spoke to your son or daughter and when you plan to ask, you may have gotten the answer already. So you don't need to even ask it again.

SPEAKER_01 8:59

I I love the point, what two points that you made. One, if like it it might go out of your brain, and but then you said it will come back when it needs to, because I feel like I'm constantly being like, oh, wait, I just had a thought and it's gone, you know? So I like your reassurance that it'll come back when it needs to. But also, you really struck on something about immediately when our kids are having a struggle that we are so tempted to talk about ourselves, like you just said, and say, oh, well, this is this happened to me when I was a kid and this is how I handled it. And you're you hit the nail on the head. It's not about me. And the way I handled it is not the way my kid's going to handle it. It is completely about my child. And so I think we try to be helpful by letting them know this is a normal experience. You're not alone. But that's not necessarily the right route to go in conversations with them.

SPEAKER_00 9:51

And that is how you will also learn from your child, like what you were saying. How you dealt with John in your time, the so-called John, at the point when you were younger. You might have knocked him down or run home and tell your father and he would have waited for him after school around the corner. Something. But now it's different, you know, and so your daughter or son may come to you and tell you about John. And so you have to allow her or him to decide how they want to deal with it. And you will be thinking, You're my God, I'm ready to kind of fist John. I'm ready, I'm waiting for him. I'm waiting for him, you know. So when you hear how your child deals with it, you'll be like, Oh my god, I would not have done that, but that's that's pretty cool. And hold up, this is my son or daughter, I'm doing a damn good job. So it makes you feel good about a parent. Not that your parents were bad at the time, but that was just how things were dealt with, you know, probably back in the day, and it's what your parents knew to do. But now it's a different time, and so it reassures you that hey, my son and daughter is taking a different approach. That that's different. So they're teaching you, and you could even take that to the workplace or even with your friends, or a John that may come to you in your adult life, you know. So learn, you know, and be open and willing.

SPEAKER_01 11:17

Absolutely. And and I know you talk also about even young kids who really can't talk or communicate in the way that we are, they are still always communicating, right? And like you mentioned this earlier about you could just watch somebody and understand kind of what's going on, much more so than you might be able to if we just listened to somebody. So let's talk a little bit to those moms and dads who have the little ones who are trying to figure out, you know, what, you know, the tantrums and all the things that they do to communicate. What are they telling us? What are they teaching us? And most importantly, yeah, what can we learn from it?

SPEAKER_00 11:55

Well, it all depends. You

Tantrums As Communication Signals

SPEAKER_00 11:57

mentioned tantrums. So, kids to me, throw tantrums. I've seen, I mean, it never happened to me necessarily with my kids. I can't explain the whole psychology behind it and what may be going through their mind. But to us, what we observe is you're embarrassing us, you're in public, why are you screaming? There is no need, or beating up on the floor. Why are you doing that? Why are you kicking and screaming? Why are you making demands? You know, and you're like, this is not of me. You might try to blame the father, but it's not even from the father here. So you're like, what is going on? You can ask the child to me, you can ask the child in a very calm voice because it makes no sense. There is chaos and anger coming from them, and you are also giving chaos and anger. That makes no sense. So you have to have a very calm, still voice. You don't touch them because then they decide I am going to perform for you. If you think I was performing, I'm going to overperform. So they sort of scream more because they feel when you touch them, you're coming to public discipline and they're not about that. So it's attention seeking. And so you want to find out what's going on. And sometimes you give them the space. Once they don't hurt themselves, or they have no objects nearby for them to hurt themselves, they may beat out the energy. Whether they're screaming through an tantrum, you sit there like, okay, I'm I'm giving you the space to release whatever it is you're going through. And just be calm until they're ready to calm down. But you always maintain a calm voice. Don't meet chaos with chaos, it never works. Sometimes you may have, depending on where you may be, you know, you may be in the house, as I said, once they're not in any harm or danger, physically or otherwise, you know. And if you want, you could even move things and give them the space to roll and tumble, you know. And if they do hurt themselves, that may be okay too. I know as a mother and as a parent, it will be hard. It will be hard. But even if they do, they will stop. Because when they hit their elbow against something, that pain is going to take off the thought of what was I screaming about again? It will now be about the elbow. And so now you come in and say, Oh, what happened there? You heard the elbow? And and suddenly they're like, Um, what was I doing a while ago? You are certainly not going to remind them, but you'll be you have a gentle talk. Let's have a sit, let's talk about it, let's have something to drink. Will you want a cookie? Whatever. And so the conversation, the conversation starts, and you'll be like, What was that about a while ago? You were screaming, what was that? You know, why? And you have a conversation, but always be calm. Sometimes we tend to grab them and be like, stop it, you're embarrassed, and that is your first reaction. But again, control, discipline, calmness. That's always the best way to do it. And I tell you, these things travel into adulthood, Elizabeth. We see it at the workplace. People throw tantrums, adults throw tantrums. Okay, and we have to be the one not to fight back with that person. We have to be very calm about it.

SPEAKER_01 15:18

I I love what you're saying because I feel like as a parent, you're right. Like, I mean, not fight we we know, like at work, we're not gonna argue back with somebody. That's not gonna help anything. But as parents, I think we feel like I need to teach them that this is not how we handle things, you know? And so we do approach it differently. So I love that that that reminder. And also, it doesn't matter if you're talking two-year-olds or 20-year-olds, like you said, responding to chaos with chaos is never, never going to, you know, to fix the situation. It's only going to amplify it. But it is hard. It is very hard, especially and as a mom and in public, to not react with frustration.

SPEAKER_00 15:58

And the reason why we would want to do that, as you say, parents, is because we are the adults and we we we are embarrassed in in public, or even if in our own homes, and you might have somebody over, you know, whatever it may be, or you may be on the phone and you have to drop the phone to deal with the child, and the person is here, you know. So you you feel embarrassed. You're like, I am the adult here, you are the child, and you tend to take this position of I am you the child, you have to listen to me, and so that overpowering is like when you're when at the at the workplace, I'm your boss.

Calm Authority Without Power Plays

SPEAKER_00 16:37

Nobody feels good about a manager or supervisor or whoever you report to come and they say, I'm your boss. You start to feel extremely small, right? And it's condescending. So think about that. You know, that's exactly what you're doing to your child, and there's no need for somebody in a leadership position, which is what a parent is, somebody in a leadership position to keep saying, I'm your boss, I'm your parent. It's how you lead in the home, it's how you lead in the workplace that would allow that respect to naturally happen. You don't have to walk around, I'm the boss. Right, right, right. You don't have to, I'm the parent. You need to listen to me. No, they will listen to you based on how you manage the home, based on how you carry yourself, based on how you speak. You can be very firm with a calm voice. Yeah, they will know the difference. Sometimes it's even more frightening when there is silence. True, true. Mom, say something, say something. Because they don't know, oh my god, she's planning to kill me. Oh my god, she's something. They so want you to speak or to smile. No, it's not happening. Silence is worse. So you can do it with silence and a very calm voice because they don't know which angle you're coming from. Yeah, they don't know.

SPEAKER_01 18:03

Well, and and I was thinking too, you know, we expect our kids to be able, especially the little kids when they're throwing a tantrum, to tell us what is wrong. And and then, but I can think about many experiences in my very recent life, like in the past few weeks, where I have told my husband, I don't know what is wrong. I'm just not into like I'm in a mood right now. I don't know why, but I just am in like in this foul mood, you know? And I can't even express like what's wrong. I don't know what's wrong. I'm probably hungry or something, like you mentioned earlier. Give them a cookie or something. Cookies solve most of the problems for kids. But but expecting them to communicate what is the problem is an overexpectation, I think, that we have.

SPEAKER_00 18:46

And and then why do you need to know? That's the question you need to ask yourself. Why do I need to know? Do I really need to know this right now? No. When they are ready, they will tell me. Just like a friend. You're gonna push your friend, tell me what happened. When they are ready, they will tell you. If they don't tell you, that's all right. But what is happening there? The dynamic is there's a gap, there's a curiosity you need filled, you know, and so I can't figure out what it is, but I need to know. I need to know why if you don't know, that's fine. It's even it's even better because you can move along your day doing everything else that you do know.

SPEAKER_01 19:29

That's true. And I actually I have uh my kids now are um 13 and 17, and my 17-year-old talks all the time, he's very much like me in that way and tells all the things and and all the things to my 13-year-old is much more like his dad. And and I can watch his body language like we talked about earlier and know something's off. But it is very hard to get him to tell me, and I'm very guilty of what you just said, and I'll I will pester him. You know, you can talk to me, right? If something's wrong, I need to know. And like you just said, I don't need to know everything. Obviously, I need to know if he's in danger or anything like that. But I think it's the mom in me that's

Teens, Silence, And Timing

SPEAKER_01 20:08

like, I want to fix whatever's wrong. I don't want my baby to be sad.

SPEAKER_00 20:12

And that's okay, and that is love. But you again, we have to understand the love language, what it is that they're communicating, and in their own time. It might be when you're sitting watching a movie, it might be when you're gardening, and he may just come over you and say, Hey, mom, and you'll be like, Why are you here? You're like, Why are you here? I'm gardening. Don't you have something to do?

SPEAKER_01 20:35

That's the time when he wants to shake, or or right when we're ready to go to bed. It's usually then, right when we're ready to go to bed.

SPEAKER_00 20:42

Just when, right, just when you're basically half-eye closed, and you're like, Mom, you'll be like, Yes, son. Be ready to listen, be ready to wake up, splash some water on your face, drink something, be re because that's when they're ready, it's not when you're ready, it's when they're ready. Think about it a little bit. It's not every time your husband asks you something or something, you're ready to talk, and you have the right to say, I don't want to talk about this right now. Can you just give me some time? Yeah, you know, but they might not be able to say that depending on their age, or they don't want to, but they want you to hear the silence communicating. I'm not ready, don't push because the more you push is actually the more you push me away. And you're pushing me into the into the hands and face and presence of somebody who is willing to wait. Just wait. It's hard. I'm a mother, I'm a mother of two boys. It's hard. What I'm telling you is wisdom after doing this for a while, and it's it's still hard to this day. Sometimes I'm tempted. I'm tempted, and I'm like, hold back, Corinne, hold back, wait a minute, wait a minute. Or how or how to ask the question without seeming intrusive, you know? So you have to, but but you have to take that time. It's only space and time would allow you to reframe and revise and approach them differently.

unknown 22:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:19

I I and I love to some of the examples you've given and you have compared to like you wouldn't talk to your spouse this way or your expect this from your boss. And I think that, and and I wonder if you agree that sometimes we treat our our kids are not adults, and we can't treat them as adults, but we sometimes don't treat them as the separate person. That they are. We have this ownership over them. And like we were just talking about, if I want to know something, I want you to tell me now, when I wouldn't expect that of my best friend or anything like that. And so I think we just have a different mentality around them that we have to be aware of so that we can be the good listeners and just be the first.

SPEAKER_00 23:00

And the thing about it that popped into my head a while ago that I really want to get across to parents as well is that we need a parent based on the phase in their life. Again, it has to come back to us. So when they were two, you speak to them or you communicate with them a particular way and you listen to them. When they are 10, it's different. You don't speak to them at 10 the same way you speak to them at 2. When they become 16 teenagers, that type of thing, you can't speak to them the same way you did at 2 and 10. And when they're in their 20s, 30s, 40s, 50s, God spare their life, you can't be treating them and speaking to them the same way.

Parenting That Evolves With Age

SPEAKER_00 23:38

I'm your parent. I'm the mom. You live in my house. You know, you're under my roof. You have to do what? No. No, no. You have to progress and respect the timeline of kids. They're still your children, no doubt. You push them out, you know. They're still your kids. But they're not kids anymore.

SPEAKER_01 24:06

We have to grow in our parenting as they grow.

SPEAKER_00 24:10

It's the same thing we would want for ourselves. Notice I keep coming back because we tend to forget as parents. It seems as if once you give birth to a child and you become a parent, it's like, ooh, I've been waiting for this position to control somebody forever. This is where I'm sitting in the CEO seat. You do this, you do that. Go do the dishes, go make up your bed. Do that.

SPEAKER_01 24:37

But you know, you just you made me think too of like conversations. I'm very close with my mom. And um, if I was talking with her and she was, you know, I'm 43 and I'm a grown adult, you know, and if she was saying, Well, I'm your mother and I say this is what you need to do, that you know, I wouldn't take too kindly to that. And so we have to remember that even our teenagers have autonomy and we need to respect that.

SPEAKER_00 25:01

They have agency and they can speak up, and we do we do want them to speak up. We do want them to have a healthy rebellion because that would let us know that they could stand up in the world. Our role as a parent is to prepare them for the world. That we, if we close our eyes at any moment, you know, or when they leave the nest, whatever it may be, that we could feel comforted that they can survive, they would make good decisions. And and you know, it's so amazing. When kids leave, you have a better relationship with them. You know, when they leave the home, you have such a beautiful relationship because there's distance, they're able to implement, and believe me, let me tell you something, and all the parents out there. Don't you worry, your kids will be fine. A mother is always worried. Look at the father, never worry, or they never show it. Right, right. But the mothers are always sleepless nights. I wonder what he's doing. I wonder what she's doing. Oh my god, did she eat? Did he do so? Did he reach home in time? Did he wake up? Oh my god, he's sick, he needs some Tylenol. Oh my god, he needs some hot soup. I should be there to make the soup, you know. Yeah, but they will be fine because you know why? They hear that same voice, they hear our voices, it comes back to them because it happens to us, Elizabeth. Yeah, we hear our parents' voices, right? Don't do this, don't do that. Be careful with that, you know. Don't say this to this person. Hold back, shut up, listen, you know, and you will it's amazing. And you know what I hear as well when I talk to people, they say I sound like my mother. When I answer the phone, you sound just like your mother. I didn't even know that it was you, that it was you on the phone. They're calling for my mother and saying, Hello, so and so, well, and I'm like, This is not so after a while you start to sound like them, and it it can be annoying because he worse thing here is you sound like your mother, you know, because there are certain things that you're like, don't don't associate me with my mother at all. But it just goes to show that it carries, right? Whether you like it or not, whether you want it or not, it carries on in life and it shows up just when you need it, you know, and sometimes we turn back and we say to our mothers, fathers, whoever our caregiver is at the time, you know, growing up, thank you so much. You know, I really was rebellious when I was much younger. I'm thankful for that too. But yeah, you know, I but I heard your voice just when I needed it. And sometimes that caregiver, that parent, it warms their heart and soul to hear that because you carry them, you know, with you. And so it's the same thing even for a child. You know, a parent will hear their child's voice just when they need it. You know, mom, you know, don't do so-and-so, because you might be tempted to buck somebody or you know, take vengeance, and you will hear your child's voice because you remember an interaction that your child taught you, you know, of being a better person. And I my firm belief is children come into this world to teach us, right? It's not the other way around. They are here to teach us because we don't know what we think we know, but but they are here to teach us, to help us to be more patient, to help us to be more loving, to help us to have more empathy, you know, all these different qualities that we we didn't develop a discipline with over the time, you know, so it's an opportunity. And for those who may not be able to even have kids or maybe adopt,

Let Kids Teach You Back

SPEAKER_00 29:10

I know they have kids because they have their sisters' kids, their brothers' kids, the neighbors' kids, the church kids, all of the kids are yours, you know. Um, that they could come to your house, you try to put them out, get rid of them, but they could never leave. So they're your kids. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 29:28

Well, and Green, I can't believe it. We are already out of time. You are a wealth of information and knowledge. And this was a fantastic conversation. And one of the things that I really that is going to stick with me, and I just thought of this a second ago, whenever we think about teachers and the teachers who really make an impact on our kids, especially when they're teens and they're, you know, figuring out who they are. It's the teachers who listen. And and like you've talked about, that is a huge part of communication. And as parents, we have to remember that. And I love what you've told me. You've you've taught me a lot in this conversation. And I'm going to be working on these things with my own family to be a better listener, to be more patient, and to understand that they'll tell me when they need to tell me, if they need to tell me. And if if they don't, that it's okay. I don't have to know everything. It's okay.

SPEAKER_00 30:19

Move along with your life. You have a life. Your life is not only about the kids, because that's another thing. I mean, we think that everything is around our kids, but you need to have a life for yourself. Because when they move on, what happens to Elizabeth? What happens to Corine? There's a big gap. And now you're rushing them to have kids so that they could bring the grandkids over to fill the gap. And so you continue to cycle. No, no, no. Have a life. Travel, leave them home, throw them in some home or something. You know why while you go and have a knife.

SPEAKER_01 30:55

That is absolutely right. It is easy to forget about ourselves whenever we're in the thick of it, especially when they need us for everything. So that's a fantastic reminder. Well, Karin, is there anything else you want to share with our audience before we have to wrap things up?

SPEAKER_00 31:09

Have fun. Know that you're a little child in a big body. Don't get it twisted. We are all children and just a big body. And so we have needs, we need to be listened to, we need to be communicated with, not to, you know, and um just enjoy. Enjoy having your kids, enjoy learning from them, and enjoy um adapting those learnings into all facets of your life.

unknown 31:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 31:39

Well, I absolutely loved this conversation. And Corrine, anybody who's interested in and following Corrine, we will have her links to social media and all the things. So it's super easy to connect with her. If you want more information, you can reach directly out to her. All the so if you're listening or watching, wherever you're at, the links are gonna be right where you are. So you can follow her and learn more from her. Again, Corrine, thank you for your time and your wisdom. And again, just we really appreciate you for being here.

SPEAKER_00 32:02

You're welcome. And thank you so much for having me, Elizabeth.

SPEAKER_01 32:05

And thanks for listening.